Spiral Dynamics on Actualized.org

[Sockrattes]

I'm relatively new her, but i have to say, the whole discussion about SD is getting out of hand, isn't it?

Everyone seems to think, they are on Tier 2 and are trying to convince everyone else that they are.

But in fact, this kind of thinking is quite blue and orange.

The model is interesting, sure. But stop thinking about it so much. You are doing harm to yourself by becoming slaves to it.

Humans are more nuanced than SD is telling you. In my experience, someone can be on 4 stages simultaneously without even realising it. And cognitive dissonances are a thing as well. And of course everyone seems to think, they themselves must be higher than most of the other people.

This is quite frustrating, and it seems like, the model is doing more harm than good, right now.

[Joseph Maynor]

It’s a useful framework for personal development.

Edited July 12, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Paulus Amadeus]

that's exactly what someone in blue, who's craving hierarchical structures would say  . Spiral wizard Paulus Amadeus saves the day again.

[Sockrattes]

18 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

It’s a useful framework for personal development.

Actually it isn't.

It is a okay model to check 'where you are' right now.
But the model itself won't take you further, because it binds you in its own dogmatism.

[Joseph Maynor]

4 minutes ago, Sockrattes said:

Actually it isn't.

It is a okay model to check 'where you are' right now.
But the model itself won't take you further, because it binds you in its own dogmatism.

I see your point.  It’s a good one.  But how do you grow without models?  Isn’t education based on the principle that models are useful to our growth? 

Edited July 12, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Joseph Maynor]

Just now, Outer said:

Depends on your goal.

That’s right.  

[Joseph Maynor]

2 minutes ago, Outer said:

Growing itself is useless without what to grow. The measurement is only useful for what it measures. We should start by our goal, and to fulfill the goal we need to measure it, and then with our measurement we stumble toward the goal.

Even more important than goal is intuition.  Goal is still too conceptual.  You’re gonna get yourself in the weeds with goals alone.  

[Sockrattes]

25 minutes ago, Outer said:

Depends on your goal.

This right here.

When you want to win a marathon, then you have to train everyday, to get the body and the motoric skillset you need, to be faster and better than everyone else. Personal development is a statement of intent, not content by itself.

[Joseph Maynor]

3 minutes ago, Sockrattes said:

This right here.

When you want to win a marathon, then you have to train everyday, to get the body and the motoric skillset you need, to be faster and better than everyone else. Personal development is a statement of intent, not content by itself.

Please elaborate on your last sentence.

[Sockrattes]

@Joseph Maynor

What @Outer said. And:

Personal Development is a mindset. 'I want to develop further on this topic'.

But it is not possible or even useful to 'develop in developing', because then you won't learn anything.

That being said, of course models are useful. But you have to keep in mind, that models are just that. Reality is always more nuanced and complex, than those models. And when it comes to topics like your mental state, you can't be to cautious about models. There is no topic out there, that is more important than you. So be as careful as you can with SD.

Read about it, as much as you want. There is no problem with that and i will do it too. But always keep in mind, that it is just a model and not a authentic and definite ruler for consciousness. 

[Paulus Amadeus]

@Sockrattes I thnk it's super usefull actually. Because it introduces the notion of growth in more dimensions. If you are in Orange you might have thought of growth as:

- getting hotter girls

- getting more money

- becomming fitter etc.

But when you learn about spiral dynamics you see that your real growth could come from going to green and focussing on:

- opening your heart

- caring about the wellbeing of your surroundings

- protecting the enviroment

So knowing the model is very very usefull for getting you out of barking up the wrong tree. If you don't misread where you are at on the spiral that is ofcourse. And yeah, it's just a model. So it shouldn't become the absolute gospel. 

[Joseph Maynor]

25 minutes ago, Sockrattes said:

@Joseph Maynor

What @Outer said. And:

Personal Development is a mindset. 'I want to develop further on this topic'.

But it is not possible or even useful to 'develop in developing', because then you won't learn anything.

That being said, of course models are useful. But you have to keep in mind, that models are just that. Reality is always more nuanced and complex, than those models. And when it comes to topics like your mental state, you can't be to cautious about models. There is no topic out there, that is more important than you. So be as careful as you can with SD.

Read about it, as much as you want. There is no problem with that and i will do it too. But always keep in mind, that it is just a model and not a authentic and definite ruler for consciousness. 

The Ego wants to define itself and its Conceptual Understanding at the top of the hierarchy of Egos.  That’s one of the dangers of Spiral Dynamics I’ve noticed.  I get to define Turquoise in my self-image and now all y’all are by definition under me.  Sounds too good to be true!  

That’s a real risk.  I appreciate that risk.  The Ego is sneaky like that.  

Edited July 12, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[RichardY]

I think of the pre-communist pyramid structure. But instead of labelling people by their profession. You instead pronounce judgement on their soul.

[sarapr]

1 hour ago, RichardY said:

I think of the pre-communist pyramid structure. But instead of labelling people by their profession. You instead pronounce judgement on their soul.

So correct 

[Emerald]

I personally don't really think it's a great tool for individual personal development because development tends to happen more organically than the system can accurately predict. Plus, the ego just loves to use it to bolster ideas about one's self, which can be a huge damper on development. 

Having said that, I think it's an awesome tool for understanding how societies evolve. So, I'm really interested in its potentials for social engineering, solving systemic issues, and aiding human development to bring us forward to more conscious and integrated social structures. Plus, it gives me a deeper context to sort all the negativity of the current era to see how it fits as a small piece in a bigger puzzle. 

[Leo Gura]

It will take you guys several years of work just to realize how significant and profound Spiral Dynamics is.

A pig cannot appreciate a pearl.

[NoSelfSelf]

@Leo Gura If you are enlightened is it still worth studying spiral dynamics or you are "above" it?

[Sockrattes]

@Paulus Amadeus

It is useful for a certain kind of people and in retrospective. At least it seems to me like that.

I'm not judging SD in general. It is the best model for consciousness i know of.

(But it is worth mentioning, that the model itself is orange in nature.)

 

What really confuses me, is that there are many people looking down on others, pointing fingers at them and telling them, they are on lesser stages or do any other kind of labeling.

Isn't this the kind of judgemental attitude, that prevents one from developing further?

This is what i'm talking about. I think i could have elaborate it further to prevent my post from being misunderstood, but i forgive myself.^^

 

@RichardY

To be honest, i don't get your comment. English isn't my first language, so...

[RichardY]

6 hours ago, RichardY said:

I think of the pre-communist pyramid structure. But instead of labelling people by their profession. You instead pronounce judgement on their soul.

   

Blue, Orange, Green(SJW's), Yellow, Turquoise(Collective Solipsists), Coral(or Corral, to imprison Cattle)

15 minutes ago, Sockrattes said:

 

@RichardY

To be honest, i don't get your comment. English isn't my first language, so...

Spiral dynamics is profane rather than holy or sacred. Not that profanity isn't useful in many circumstances, or that I have no curiosity towards profanity. "There's daggers in men's smiles". - Shakespeare

I think it's profane to label or assume a person's soul, not that I can avoid doing it, at least usually in my own mind or "celebrities".

Profane Fire.

[Sockrattes]

@RichardY

Yes. Thank you.

In fact SD is a orange model, pretending to be yellow or turquoise, liked by green people who are forcing their model on others like a blue one would.

It is strange to witness something like this.

Humans are way more complex and i would assume sacred than that.