Why do I=you=we exist?

[Zweistein]

Also, can we explore the question why and how do (our) ego-identities fail to see their own evil at work? Could the devil be in the tiniest nuances (sometimes just words/letters/language which can lead to huge emotions)?

Edited August 22, 2018 by Zweistein

[now is forever]

On 26.7.2018 at 7:41 PM, tsuki said:

 

The squares are logic-based. It is a symbolic, mechanical manipulation of knowledge.
Transitions however are intuitive and occur when there is an equilibrium within a stage.
When all beings within a stage are of equal importance. When search within a stage in exhausted.

some days ago i read something about ashwagandha (it’s an ayurvedic adaptogen) the explanation how it works was quiet interesting - they say it works through the three powers of sattva raja and tama. it’s also called triguna.

i read some more and find out it‘s about ayurvedic psychology. 

i would like to find out something about the correlation between these and that. i think comparing could bring some more light to that circle of competence. are we still working on a body, soul, mind model here? 

i know it was in another thread... but it just popped up ?‍♀️

is this theory building again? it’s not something bad is it? we would develope our tools with it...to another stage...is this already stage 2?

guess it’s about interdependencies again. wouldn’t it be funny if we could see what kind of component is when at work? or is it just our interpretation again... i mean the ego minds. 

we could see what’s happening in another person without judging, and we could maybe see what’s happening inside of us.

we could also compare it to the iceberg model of freud.

am i a super ego here? after this whole discussion just caring for more theories?

Edited August 22, 2018 by now is forever

[Zweistein]

I wouldn't mind talking a bit more about practical applications using some of the tools we have learned, what do you think? For example, if we would recontextualize and assume that @MrDmitriiV could as well be a well-known psychologist, who really wants to try to teach us something here (maybe using some very sneaky manipulative methods to figure out our true nature?). How would that change the game?

[now is forever]

9 hours ago, Zweistein said:

Well, I just learned that in non-dual world there is no difference, but in dual world there is a very tiny difference that actually matters. If we fail to make this tiny difference, we are in fact completely screwed. I contemplated this a lot and I agree with Leo's view on this point nowadays.

P.S. Could it be a clue how one can walk through a mirror? ?

sorry we just made a mess here - so i‘m willing to clean up.

did i talk about that super nice newspaper i bought from a homeless person in the subway? 

 

[now is forever]

i really liked that difference:

[now is forever]

it’s not really political - it’s just about an integrated definition of solidarity.

the kernel is the essence of the difference emile durkheim made between solidarity of group ego‘s and organical solidarity.

Edited August 22, 2018 by now is forever
guess it‘s some kind of strangeloop...

[now is forever]

11 hours ago, Zweistein said:

I wouldn't mind talking a bit more about practical applications using some of the tools we have learned, what do you think? For example, if we would recontextualize and assume that @MrDmitriiV could as well be a well-known psychologist, who really wants to try to teach us something here (maybe using some very sneaky manipulative methods to figure out our true nature?). How would that change the game?

he must be really really good! and i guess i would start thinking about possibilities again...

i don‘t know, then he would have set it all up... and would have tried to really point to the stage orange problems. (i can’t say it wasn’t on my mind when i started to talk in metaphors, but rationalized it down) well i didn’t think of him as psychologist but as someone who did that intentionally. but then again i thought he would be probably just play a roll he finds himself comfortable in. and because he wouldn’t answer to the question about sarcasm i just concluded he would play a role he isn‘t aware of. mhhhh - guess partially i concluded that, because of the darkside thread, where he was also contradicting himself.

so the only psychological pointer for me was a reminder about the iceberg model of freud. see i rationalized it down.... again. 

why would a psychologist who could perfectly play a stage orange person show up in this forum and play that role? it’s not impossible but the probability is very low. except....now i would have to split it up again in other probabilities.

but in the end all those small attacs on the ego that triggered him and all the small attacs that somehow didn’t trigger me because i was triggered by racism.... and only focused on that... so it‘s kind of a mess, again.

if he really was a psychologist... he would have an answer now, i guess. what would make us testing bunnies. what wouldn’t make him a better person...? except...that’s just another infinity loop.

if he really was on a war, mission...he would know: in war (and in love, including an inclusive love) every method is allowed. it doesn’t mean we can accept it. then i‘d rather let others contradict themselfs, because i just don’t know where exactly they come from (not in sense of country, but ego/self agenda)

and you @Zweistein? what would that mean for you?

Edited August 23, 2018 by now is forever

[tsuki]

@now is forever @Zweistein I'm still contemplating the connections.

For now, it is difficult for me to say anything meaningful.
The theory-building drive is weaker than the theory-dismantling drive and I'm left empty-handed.

For now, the only thing that I learned from my conversation with @MrDmitriiV is that I'm apparently done with self-knowledge.
It also seems that I'm done with growing. At least in the sense I've been growing thus far.

That's a strange place to find myself in.

[now is forever]

@tsuki yes but tsuki that means you are entering a new stage! or have already entered... so what are the new steps? from my perspective you are really good in deeskalating! and you are really good in group dynamic! maybe you don’t have to have a theory building drive? you are good in dismantling theory - so do you need to build it to be a builder? what is it about the space and the shape that makes a shape stand out of the space. what is it that makes the shape? is it the space or the shape? so what does an artist do? there are different kinds of artists.

[tsuki]

37 minutes ago, now is forever said:

so what are the new steps?

@now is forever The steps are:

1. Do something you know nothing about.
2. Let the theory-building drive saturate with examples to produce a theory.
3. Let the theory-dismantling drive deconstruct the theory.
4. Restart.

Given enough assembling and dismantling, I could come to a conclusion how dismantling works.
This way, I could create a theory of dismantling theories.
It would be a bait for the theory-dismantling drive to dismantle itself.

The problem seems that for the time being I've gotten too used to dismantling and nothing gets built.

[now is forever]

(referring to the last sentence)

? dito, thats the problem of our time... but what are you doing here? are you not building something? 

if the question about the how is gone, you just have to think about the if and i would go further and say: what if? and what to do with it.

is that a red line?

that‘s something you can do in every aspect of life.

i have a really radical quote here...and i will also disconstruct it directly afterwards:

„philosophers only interpreted the world, they didn’t change it“

maybe only until they do it.

Edited August 23, 2018 by now is forever

[Zweistein]

 

18 hours ago, now is forever said:

and you @Zweistein? what would that mean for you?

Sorry, for my late answer. I connected a lot of dots today ;-)
(oh wait, no - only victims justify themselves - but if I notice it, I'm not a victim anymore. Or am I? )

This is what I learned:
I can see my arrogant behavior and where I behave like a racist. I understand even better now why it seems so freaking impossible to heal the worlds (inner and outer).

I hope that @MrDmitriiV shows up again, so we can play another game of soccer and maybe we can play a bit more fair this time?

[tsuki]

3 hours ago, now is forever said:

if the question about the how is gone, you just have to think about the if and i would go further and say: what if? and what to do with it.
is that a red line?

I know that I will sound very arrogant here, but hear me out.
Perhaps, the very thought that I am arrogant in this is the whole problem. Who knows?

So, when we learn this particular thing, lets say: carpentry, we go through 4 stages and become a master.
A master is the one that performs the work competently and unconsciously. He embodies what he does.
There are many things that we can learn this way: singing, designing, earning money etc.
Now, here goes the arrogant part:
What I am referring to is that I have mastered the process of becoming a master. 
I unconsciously and competently learn. I embody learning.

Any single stage in this graph is not even present anymore because I have become the red line.
I see no difference between being a master and being a novice. I just do things I have no clue about and I always succeed.
Either I have met the goal, or I have temporarily failed while I learn.
Sometimes, I even wish that I had failed because I will have more opportunities to learn.
Do I succeed more than I fail? I see no difference between the two.

4 hours ago, now is forever said:

i have a really radical quote here...and i will also disconstruct it directly afterwards:

„philosophers only interpreted the world, they didn’t change it“

maybe only until they do it.

That's a funny thing coming from Marx.
From the perspective of the mindworld, interpretation is change.
(Thank you for reminding me of that thread @now is forever)

[MrDmitriiV]

@Zweistein If I=you=we have the genuine interest to grow and penetrate further depths of I=you=we minds, then I=you=we recommend reading the book "The Tao of Systems Thinking" by Michael McCurley, which will introduce I=you=we to stage Yellow.

If I=you=we cut the ego in two, and put these two halves opposite of each other, an infinite ego loop will result. I=you=we want to help I=you=we transcend from this ego-loop.

Edited August 23, 2018 by MrDmitriiV

[tsuki]

So, despite declaring myself the master of mastery and being done with learning, I just bought the book @MrDmitriiV suggested.
Let's align our languages.

49 minutes ago, MrDmitriiV said:

\

That's a pretty advanced ego loop right there.

Edited August 23, 2018 by tsuki

[Zweistein]

On 23.8.2018 at 6:54 PM, MrDmitriiV said:

@Zweistein If I=you=we have the genuine interest to grow and penetrate further depths of I=you=we minds, then I=you=we recommend reading the book "The Tao of Systems Thinking" by Michael McCurley, which will introduce I=you=we to stage Yellow.

If I=you=we cut the ego in two, and put these two halves opposite of each other, an infinite ego loop will result. I=you=we want to help I=you=we transcend from this ego-loop.

 

@MrDmitriiV Thank you! 

Do you think ice and fire could actually turn into water? Or is that wishful thinking?
I will need some time to learn. How could I be so freaking naive that I'm here to heal only myself? 

 

Edited August 25, 2018 by Zweistein
this is freaking insane

[now is forever]

6 hours ago, MrDmitriiV said:

@Zweistein If I=you=we have the genuine interest to grow and penetrate further depths of I=you=we minds, then I=you=we recommend reading the book "The Tao of Systems Thinking" by Michael McCurley, which will introduce I=you=we to stage Yellow.

If I=you=we cut the ego in two, and put these two halves opposite of each other, an infinite ego loop will result. I=you=we want to help I=you=we transcend from this ego-loop.

thank you for the recommendation.

but mr dimitrii5 everything is really already mirrored in the human body especially the brain how should we ever severe that?

by the way i really like her magic glasses! i guess tsuki it’s an answer to the zooming glasses, how we can integrate them.

i still also think it’s maybe also about more body balance...why do you think kriya doesn’t work @MrDmitriiV ?

Edited August 23, 2018 by now is forever

[Zweistein]

On 24.8.2018 at 0:25 AM, Feel Good said:

I wouldn't take too much notice of that. That was my problem. 

Over and out! 

Are you sure that this was only your problem? Did you observe what I learned from our conversation? So, thank you, Sweetheart!  (You wouldn't turn into the same kind of monster like I did, would you?)

Edited August 25, 2018 by Zweistein

[Zweistein]

I also want to thank everyone else who contributed to my/our progress ;-)

I think it's time for me to say good bye for now again! 
There is more to learn and it needs my full concentration. 
 

If you don't understand why I have to say good bye now, contemplate:
 

Could it be true that we are still caught up in too much theory
and don't take enough action in the real world as long as we are discussing theory here?

Could it be true that as long as we are discussing theory here,
we are still looking for pleasure, success, wealth, identity, security, comfort and companionship?* 

 

*source: 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2018 by Zweistein

[now is forever]

@Zweistein as long as we are learning we are cought up in discussion, with ourself or with our surrounding. it’s a matter of sharing fruits and tea and our home. thank you for sharing a space with us - you made this space a home, a very comfortable one!