Why do I=you=we exist?

[Zweistein]

@now is forever You are probably just tired, aren't you? Whenever I was moving, it took more of my energy than I wanted it to...

[now is forever]

yes maybe - but i just moved to the most multicultural area of berlin.

[tsuki]

@MrDmitriiV I think that the meaning of the metaphor of the racist is lost on you. It's okay, you're just a 7-year old.
If you ever wanted to know what I meant go back to my post where I explained it and read it carefully. It's all there.

It is also linked to @Zweistein's questions about self-reflection:

26 minutes ago, Zweistein said:

Why would anyone be bothered if someone says "you are a racist", if we could simply choose to see it as a projection and our "problem" is easily solved? There is not even a need to get emotional about it, is there?*

Let me repeat my question @Zweistein: is there anything wrong with fighting?
Is there anything wrong with not wanting to see something as our own projection and emotionally defending it?

Edited August 21, 2018 by tsuki

[now is forever]

2 hours ago, MrDmitriiV said:

@now is forever So discussing the effects of sun on skin, and different tones of skin color is racist? 

you said that related to a human being with a darker skin tone related to a conversation. you said all of that in a context. while you are neglecting the context. you just try to sneak of by playing the innocent, while you said some really racist stuff from the perspective of a black person. you deny it was sarcasm related to the post before. if you deny it, it’s obviously a racist comment.

it doesn’t matter, i don‘t even want to fight with you, because i guess that kind of love is lost on you.

if this would have been my private party, guess i would have washed your head completely, maybe shaved it, so you could have had a clear view into the mirror. but not to be misinterpreted as a buddhist hair cut. that’s something else.

Edited August 21, 2018 by now is forever
i use metaphors only as a form of language, i would not shave anyone’s hair if they don’t want to in reality but i would clearly bleak my teath.

[Zweistein]

1 hour ago, tsuki said:

Oh, so I should instead respond with:
I called you a racist because you fit my definition of a racist?
Would that satisfy your inner 7 year old?

Is there anything wrong with fighting? It's a naked tea party after all.

@tsuki
How about this?

2 hours ago, tsuki said:

Racist is a metaphor (just like not wiping your feet). You are I'm thinking in labels. Could that be true? How do you think in labels sometimes, Tsuki?
Adjectives have meaning to you me. Could that be true for you, too, Tsuki? 
You I think that me you calling you me a racist has any/no other meaning than the one that you I project on it. (I seriously hope that you are having a good laugh now . I feel like a school teacher correcting an essay, but I know I can do this with you, Tsuki, right?)

I am not racist. (Another way of self-inquiry at this point could be to "turn it around" and take the don't/not away, so you could inquire: I am racist. Could that be true?)

Beige, purple, blue, orange, green, yellow, turquoise - doesn't matter. (oh, maybe it does here, lol)
To me, it does not matter whether you are a black, white, yellow or a nazi. (are you sure?)
It does not matter to me if you are racist. (sure?) Meaningfully calling people racist is what a racist does.

I do speak to you  myself here (I know you do it often, though, Tsuki ;-) There is no 'me' other than the one that you I understand from this post.

Whatever you I think about me you is not about me you at all.

You are I'm supposed to read what you I think about me you and resolve that.

The question:

Was not a question about factual statistics of people being yellow. Nobody Everybody cares (apparently).
It was (also) a question that was supposed to nudge you me into self-reflection and critiquing spiral dynamics.
We are not building knowledge here. We are not understanding how our knowledge is fundamentally limiting us.

Read my your signature. And (I should) wipe your my feet!

Does that leave everyone else also with enough material to ponder about?* 
I'm leaving the party now to get enough sleep ;-)

Namaste!

*Don't worry, I still often fail to inquire before I say or write anything. But I prefer to think that it can only get better as long as I have a little bit of intrinsic motivation to work on it.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Zweistein

[Zweistein]

42 minutes ago, tsuki said:

Let me repeat my question @Zweistein: is there anything wrong with fighting?
 

Yes, because this is a journal to nourish love, Sweetheart! 
(But I agree, sometimes, it's fun to fight as well as long as it's playful and nobody cares about winning )

 

 

Edited August 21, 2018 by Zweistein

[Zweistein]

I wanted to add (again) that you shouldn't believe anything I say!

I can see how I'm becoming a miniature version of Byron Katie here and forcing my ideology onto you guys/girls. It might be a good way to have a more constructive communication without too many projections, but (as I said above) using only her model can turn you into an emotionally numb person. In fact, you can turn into an arrogant asshole forcing this ideology onto others. Can we agree on that? ?

Can we also agree that what we are doing here is (maybe even high-level) mental masturbation, but doesn't that distract us from being present in the moment? Aren't we just feeding our addiction to thinking? Isn't it smarter to be quiet (and maybe ask questions, but only sometimes)?

[tsuki]

On 8.08.2018 at 10:36 AM, Zweistein said:

Quote

So, I have always accepted the call and I don't see a reason to refuse this one either. In fact, I'm already on the way ... only counting down the days now to start an intensive period of training in the politics (& issues behind the scenes) of patient advocacy. 

Once one is aware - one can choose to surrender or resist. Once one realizes that one has a choice, one can also question whether there is a difference between the two. They seem to be paradox at first, but through contemplating they can become one and the same "thing". Surrender vs. resistance becomes surrender = resistance. (I learned that from @tsuki  - Thank you!!!!).

@Zweistein What is the difference between love and hate?

[MrDmitriiV]

@now is forever So many words written by you, yet the ONLY sentence related to the question "Why am I racist?" is that quote about black and semi-black. I explained that, but now you even call me a neo-nazi...

Read this: In my country there are lots of gypsies, many of them have a much darker skin color then Mooji (in that photo from locked thread), BUT NO ONE calls them "black", just gypsies.  I highlighted that distinction (black/semi-black), and I have at least (my entire country) 20+ million people to support it. By calling me a racist and even neo-nazi because I highlighted different biological/physical colors of skin you ALSO call my entire country racists and neo-nazi...  You also ignore physical differences of skin colors. So with your thinking, colors are racist and colors are neo-nazi as well))) Which is completely absurd.

@tsuki I asked you why I am a racist (maybe you'll follow your friend and call me neo-nazi as well?), instead of answering the question you tell me different things, which are complete nonsense in the context of answering a question. The only thing related to the question I could decipher from the puzzles you wrote, is that I am a racist because racism is a metaphor and it's all my projection? Of course, we can all just say there's no real world but only our own mind. That'll be correct, but it won't get you anywhere. With your thinking, a person seeing a car speeding in his direction, should ignore physical phenomena and just think "oh, the car is a metaphor and my own projection!" Good thing people aren't "wise" enough to think like you propose me to think.

I didn't ask you to explain what projections and metaphors are or just go deeper then necessary, I asked a simple question and you refuse to answer it, because by doing so you'll realize calling me racist wasn't based on any logical conclusions.

DEFINITION OF RACIST FROM DICTIONARY: 1. a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another. 2.showing or feeling discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or believing that a particular race is superior to another.

1. Do I feel discrimination against other races?

All I did is stating a real statistic (95%, approximate number) and biological/physical differences in skin color (black/semi-black), both aren't even opinions but real world stuff.

2. Do I believe that a particular race is superior to another?

All I did is stating a real statistic (95%, approximate number) and biological/physical differences in skin color (black/semi-black), both aren't even opinions but real world stuff.

Well, you can't argue with the English dictionary, unless you want to call half of the world racists and neo-nazi.

By calling me racist, you also call real world statistics and skin colors to be racist (and neo-nazi), which is absurd.

I didn't get bothered or triggered by your absurd behavior, all I wanted is to teach 3 people a lesson and open their eyes. 

You can write whatever you want, I'm not gonna spend any more time in this thread. Bye and good luck with your highly advanced ego-mirrors.

 

 

Edited August 22, 2018 by MrDmitriiV

[tsuki]

31 minutes ago, MrDmitriiV said:

You can write whatever you want, I'm not gonna spend any more time in this thread. Bye and good luck with your highly advanced ego-mirrors.

@MrDmitriiV  Thank you and good bye.

31 minutes ago, MrDmitriiV said:

@tsuki I asked you why I am a racist (maybe you'll follow your friend and call me neo-nazi as well?), instead of answering the question you tell me different things, which are complete nonsense in the context of answering a question.

You are not trying to understand why I called you a racist.
What you are doing is asking me to show you how your behavior matches your definition of a racist.
These are not the same thing and I guess this is why we're having this discussion.
To me, a racist is not even an insult (like @Zweistein noticed when picking my response apart).

31 minutes ago, MrDmitriiV said:

With your thinking, a person seeing a car speeding in his direction, should ignore physical phenomena and just think "oh, the car is a metaphor and my own projection!" Good thing people aren't "wise" enough to think to like you propose me to think.

You are assuming that when a speeding car rushes towards you, you have the liberty to stay or to go. You don't.
It seems like you think you have control over your life which comes from your identification with your mind.
What I am suggesting is to inquire into its nature so that you could actually notice that this very discussion is the speeding car you can't help to argue with. That would require from you to abandon the position of:

35 minutes ago, MrDmitriiV said:

all I wanted is to teach 3 people a lesson and open their eyes. 

which is understandably difficult as I am not willing to let go of this very desire myself. 

39 minutes ago, MrDmitriiV said:

I didn't ask you to explain what projections and metaphors are or just go deeper then necessary, I asked a simple question and you refuse to answer it, because by doing so you'll realize calling me racist wasn't based on any logical conclusions.

It was based on logical conclusions that stem from my definition of racism.
You are mistakenly thinking that your definition of a racist is any less metaphorical than mine. 
You seem to be assuming that some definitions are more precise than others simply because they are widely accepted.
That is correct only in so far as you do not question the constituent meanings of the words that define them.
Floating on the surface of 'hard facts', 'science' and 'objectivity' is fun.

What I would ask you to contemplate is: why is it logical to use logic?
In case you come to a conclusion that it is illogical to use logic, then it would be interesting to rethink the sentence I underlined in the quote above.

Like I said: fire and ice mix very well.

[MrDmitriiV]

24 minutes ago, tsuki said:

What you are doing is asking me to show you how your behavior matches your definition of a racist.

I wrote in bold letters the definition of a racist from dictionary, not my definition. I wrote in bold letters that my behavior doesn't suit the English definition of the word racist. Go argue with the authors of the dictionary.

If you want to say there's no free will, I agree. But there's no need to go this deep. A simple answer is asked of you, not explanations of metaphors, non-duality, free will or the logical use of logic. 

Why am I racist is the question, I did NOT ask you: What is a metaphor? What is non-duality? Do I have free will? Is logic logical?

I don't understand why the moderators let people like you write absurd things and insult people...

 

Edited August 22, 2018 by MrDmitriiV

[now is forever]

@MrDmitriiV i do know why the moderators shutted down the thread we were talking about though. and i do know that you are an ego that want‘s to survive in a group. and i can clearly say that you want to go your way, by all means being the sole authority. asking questions you can’t answer for yourself. this is an observation of multiple posts in multiple threads you were posting in. but it doesn’t work like that because this is after all a community with certain standards. these standards are actualization of the self, what means working on the self by selfinquiery, but you always want others to do that for you because it seems to be too tiresome  to do it yourself. it‘s understandable but selfactualization is not a youtube download, it takes effort and time. maybe a whole lifetime. and when you come here and want to succeed, you have to start from the bottom, whatever colour you think you are. because you start from the bottom every morning you wake up. you want to be the darkside of the power? fine, but they have rules, too.

i have to give you one sole thanks: it’s eye opening. in sense of understanding codependency so apparently your behavior is a good teacher to me. but to your ego it’s not.

Edited August 22, 2018 by now is forever
don‘t want to refer to the fact that i only compared your behavior and never called you a nazi - you did that yourself. and you also called your whole country a nazi country by yourself i never implied that with anything i was saying.

[tsuki]

1 hour ago, MrDmitriiV said:

I don't understand why the moderators let people like you write absurd things and insult people...

@MrDmitriiV I wonder about that myself.
I think that it has something to do with the fact that I am being explicit about the absurdity of what I am writing.
With this kind of attitude, the only reason why would you argue with me is because you want to.
I think that it is pretty clear that I am not arguing back though (at least to them).

That, or they simply overlooked me. Have you tried to report me yet?
I would gladly learn which of the two is the case.

1 hour ago, MrDmitriiV said:

If you want to say there's no free will, I agree. But there's no need to go this deep. A simple answer is asked of you, not explanations of metaphors, non-duality, free will or the logical use of logic. 

Why am I racist is the question, I did NOT ask you: What is a metaphor? What is non-duality? Do I have free will? Is logic logical?

It seems that you're having a tantrum because I am not playing by the rules that you expect me to.
Why does the fact that you do not see the answer you expect upset you so much?
What is the point of talking if we're going to give each other answers we're anticipating?
I'm not here to cuddle with you.

Perhaps @now is forever was right when she said:

25 minutes ago, now is forever said:

and i can clearly say that you want to go your way, by all means being the sole authority.

From my point of view, the sense in which you are a racist has to do with all of the above topics that I touched in my response.
You begged me to explain to you in what sense you are a racist. You got my answer.

[MrDmitriiV]

@tsuki okay, you don't want to answer why I am a racist in your opinion ("play by my rules") , but talk about completely different things instead ("I am being explicit about the absurdity of what I am writing").

Child: Mom, should I drink the bottle labeled "poison" or "milk"?

Mom: You didn't wipe your feet before coming in, you are assuming that the bottle will do anything to you, you said that in a context, the bottle is a metaphor, to me poison is not even bad...

So who is a madman, the child or mom?

The child asked mom a simple question, yet the mad woman is talking about completely different things.

 

Edited August 22, 2018 by MrDmitriiV

[now is forever]

@MrDmitriiV who is your mom? me?

i guess i just started to be a dragon again.

if yo were my son i would not tell you to drink the milk, i would let you drink the milk. but you are not my son. so why should i let you drink my milk. 

the poison, just watch out for it don’t drink it. the cow milk drink it to grow but it will get poisonous if you drink it too often. don’t judge people by their appearance.

but to wake up, to grow up you have to leave your mother, you have to drink the poison to drink the milk of life.

Edited August 22, 2018 by now is forever

[tsuki]

11 minutes ago, MrDmitriiV said:

Child: Mom, should I drink the bottle labeled "poison" or "milk"?

Mom: You didn't wipe your feet before coming in, you are assuming that the bottle will do anything to you, you said that in a context, the bottle is a metaphor, to me poison is not even bad...

So who is a madman, the child or mom?

Now that's a different game. You made me into a mother and yourself into a child.
I am now supposed to teach you what is the difference between the milk and poison.
I was under an impression that:

3 hours ago, MrDmitriiV said:

all I wanted is to teach 3 people a lesson and open their eyes. 

Who is the mother and who is a child in your story?

 

Edited August 22, 2018 by tsuki
Notice that this is the same question Now is Forever asks

[MrDmitriiV]

@now is forever @tsuki I wanted to ask mommy why she thinks I am sad, but she started talking about completely different things, so I wanted to show her that we won't be happy if she says one thing, I ask why, but she starts talking about something else. Mommy needs to grow up and learn the basics of communication, established by our great ancestors thru pain and blood.

Edited August 22, 2018 by MrDmitriiV

[tsuki]

@MrDmitriiV Is that how you talk to your mother?
Go back to your room and no computer for you today.

[MrDmitriiV]

@tsuki Mother is sick, the medicine I try to give her hurts, but if she accepts it joy will wash over her. Son tries help mom.

Edited August 22, 2018 by MrDmitriiV

[tsuki]

10 minutes ago, MrDmitriiV said:

Mother is sick, the medicine I try to give her hurts, but if she accepts it joy will wash over her. Son tries help mom.

@MrDmitriiV It takes a doctor to tell medicine from poison.
You just said that you don't even know the difference between milk and poison.
How did it occur to you that you can treat her?

You're just like a regular 7 year old.

Edited August 22, 2018 by tsuki