Why do I=you=we exist?

[Zweistein]

What happened so far:

"I" had lovely discussions, especially with @now is forever and @tsuki: 

"I" never had such deep discussions before, but then again, they were just words... nothing else really, or were they?
It felt blissful and then "I" fell deep, very deep (yet again) facing "my" dark sides:

Why do "I" dare to post this here? Because you=I=we could learn, watch and learn! (if "you" are ready for it, "I" guess, and if "you" happen to resonate with what "I" write about ;-)
 

So, "I" hope that "I" will never make these mistakes again (let "someone" or "something" trigger "my" ego). The world is ok as it is - only half dragons are dumb enough to try to pick a fight with real dragons.

So, "I" faced the nothingness even deeper this time. "I" faced it head on and after meditating the heck out of it, it feels like "I" can walk through the mirror now, hopefully with a bit more grace.
 

Edited August 18, 2018 by Zweistein

[Zweistein]

Are "you=I=we" able to take the perspectives of a man, a woman, a disabled person, a black person, a G/L/B/T person and any kind of "minority"- person?

Are "you=I=we" able to see the world out of the perspective of a mother, a father, a child, a grandmother, a grandfather?

Are "you=I=we" able to see the world out of the perspective of a narcissist, a choleric & angry person, a depressed person, a dependent person, a mentally ill person, a normal person, a happy person, a lonely person, a person who feels loved, ....?

Are "you=I=we" able to see the world out of the perspective of a any political party?
 

Are "you=I=we" able to see the world out of the perspective of someone who would risk their life for something they believe in?

Are "you=I=we" able to see the world out of the perspective of someone who doesn't care about much at all?

Are "you=I=we" able to see the world out of the perspective of a rich person AND of a person who lives on the street?

 

Are "you=I=we" able to see the world out of the perspective of a religious person (of any kind) AND of a person who calls himself/herself an atheist?

Are "you=I=we" able to step in anyone's shoes?

 

Edited August 18, 2018 by Zweistein
yes, I will shut up and keep meditating ?

[now is forever]

that’s so touching zweistein, i guess we are able to take anyones perspective. but it’s difficult to do that with all at the same time. 

sometimes we just don’t want to take the others perspective because it hurts.

and sometimes the others are not open enough.

if we stop focusing on the humane stuff of the why. why someone is acting the way they do we are lost in translation again. 

there is a good quote of someone i know: “i can understand why they are acting that way, it just doesn’t mean i can accept it”.

that’s where all struggles and differences begin. 

that’ partly a male problem, as they fight for independence and they learned to separate themselfs instead of finding the separation inside of oneness.

they try to find the difference in the person not in the cause.

or maybe they try to find the differences of cause to find the difference in the person...

it’s a struggle for power.

Edited August 18, 2018 by now is forever

[Zweistein]

@now is forever

My journal just got re-contextualized* - what an arrogant person am "I" forcing "my" ideology onto "you" guys/girls? 
Oh jeeze, what a bubble "I" created here... 
Ohhhhh, all this manipulation that lovely ego-minds like to do with all the conceptualizing & mental masturbation.
 

So what's next? Meditation, shutting up, being still....

_______________________________

*which is obviously an illusion within an illusion, lol. No wait, now it's the ego trying to trick itself ? Well, at least it's "just a journal" ??

Edited August 20, 2018 by Zweistein

[now is forever]

no wait a minute, who is the bubble? have you created a bubble? you just entered a bubble with thinking that. you are always a co creator... co dependent... there is no way you created that on your own. it’s nice though you want to take responsibility. but that’s a bubble, too.

don’t load the whole bubble on your shoulders. that’s collecting stones again. i mean stones on your heart.

just stop trying to heal the ego’s wounds of others. if you can - they are responsible for themselves. you always try to pour water on plants to make them grow. but the ego has to be cut off, of the water source first to realize it’s own source.

see i’m also talking about half knowledge, it’s because we never know for sure what we create before we have created it.

i don’t know, but would it help to let others trample on your ego, but not on your selfesteem?

try to forget the shame it creates if you get trampled on, just have a good lough and learn.

(guess it’s the you=i=we again, that is such an amazing insight, have at least some pride in understanding that)

Edited August 19, 2018 by now is forever

[Zweistein]

@now is forever

The bubble is that I'm failing to heal my internal wounds by seeking for the "magical medicine" in the external world. I already felt quite healed before I joined this Forum and now I realize that I wasn't quite there yet. I still felt more responsible for others people's wounds than my own. Even if this insight hurts like hell, I can see it now and I don't think that it has to have an effect on my self-esteem. I still always have a choice. If anything, it gets the chance to grow stronger than it ever was ??

Edited August 19, 2018 by Zweistein

[now is forever]

@Zweistein dito.

the problem just is if you created codependency in your external world or someone created it for you, you have to resolve that, too.

or try to figure out where it’s healthy and where not. because we are all interdependent with our surrounding.

guess that’s creating at least some boundaries, while opening others.

Edited August 19, 2018 by now is forever

[Zweistein]

@now is forever interesting point - I will contemplate ?

So far, I have the feeling that of course I will make "mistakes" again, but that is completely OK, isn't it? ?

I also have the feeling that some sort of history is in the making. It does feel like an existential crisis, but maybe there is no need to tear down the whole house. Maybe it's enough to move some furniture around inside the house? It feels more and more impressive to watch how this plays out. As long as Atréju can stay calm and reflective, doesn't loose AURYN again and knows that Fuchur is by his side, I'm sure it's possible to give the childlike empress a new name.

 

(But yeah, as I said before, don't believe anything I say!)

[Zweistein]

 

Understanding the teaching is the form,
once understood one can fill the form with emptiness.

Emptiness doesn't have to be dark, it can be filled with light.

Leo created an interesting form of teaching here ;-)

 

Edited August 20, 2018 by Zweistein

[tsuki]

Are you=I=we ready to watch the ego build and tear itself down with equanimity?

Are you=I=we ready to admit that the ego is not a wound to be healed?

Do we watch other people, or do we watch our thoughts about them?
Do others think about us, or do we think about them thinking about us?
I=you=we=us=them=others

Just two mirrors facing each other.

 

[Zweistein]

@tsuki 

Yes.

Yes.

We watch other people (or we decide not to) AND we watch our thoughts about them (or decide not to).

Other people might think about us (or they might not) AND we might think about them thinking about us (or we might not).

Edited August 20, 2018 by Zweistein

[tsuki]

@Zweistein You're back!  Too bad that I'm gone now .
I really enjoyed our deep conversation in the other thread. It was a goldmine.

17 minutes ago, Zweistein said:

We watch other people (or we decide not to) AND we watch our thoughts about them (or decide not to).

Other people might think about us (or they might not) AND we might think about them thinking about us (or we might not).

Is there a difference between our thoughts and 'other people'?

[Zweistein]

@tsuki No, I'm not back either, lol. 

Of course there is no difference between our thoughts and 'other people'. I'm just talking to myself here, right? 

But then there is a very very tiny distinction ?

Edited August 20, 2018 by Zweistein

[Zweistein]

On 19.8.2018 at 3:54 PM, now is forever said:

@Zweistein dito.

the problem just is if you created codependency in your external world or someone created it for you, you have to resolve that, too.

or try to figure out where it’s healthy and where not. because we are all interdependent with our surrounding.

guess that’s creating at least some boundaries, while opening others.

Could we agree that healthy codependency is pretty much equal to interdepency?

 

[now is forever]

17 hours ago, tsuki said:

Are you=I=we ready to watch the ego build and tear itself down with equanimity?

Are you=I=we ready to admit that the ego is not a wound to be healed?

Do we watch other people, or do we watch our thoughts about them?
Do others think about us, or do we think about them thinking about us?
I=you=we=us=them=others

Just two mirrors facing each other.

 

yeah @tsuki that’s an infinity loop! they had something like that in the samsung museum of modern art in seoul. can’t remember the artist.

really nice finding that not in a museum, but on your own! 

i guess you watch other people and your surrounding 

and of course, we do watch our thoughts about them... but maybe we can admit - if there is something like understanding, we watched not only our thoughts about them.

and there is still a lot of other unproven possibility.

Edited August 20, 2018 by now is forever

[Zweistein]

7 hours ago, now is forever said:

 @tsuki

i guess you watch other people and your surrounding 

and of course, we do watch our thoughts about them... but maybe we can admit - if there is something like understanding, we watched not only our thoughts about them.

and there is still a lot of other unproven possibility.

In this context, we can ask more lovely questions ?

Could it be true, that subconscious psychological needs usually show up when one feels unobserved or fails to observe oneself?

Isn't observing the most important tool to understand reality and how systems works? How can you otherwise act accordingly?

How can you develop a hypothesis without testing "the waters"?

@tsuki Did you take the picture? ?

 

Edited August 21, 2018 by Zweistein

[tsuki]

8 minutes ago, Zweistein said:

@tsuki Did you take the picture? ?

Yes 

[now is forever]

45 minutes ago, Zweistein said:

Could it be true, that subconscious psychological needs usually show up when one feels unobserved or fails to observe oneself?

i‘m not sure - i guess it’s not exactly unobservation... that makes psychological needs show up. people tend to learn or do a lot of shit if unattended completely with a lack of selfobservation. i find the nosepickers in cars  good example. so in that sense the needs show up.

yes observation or attentiveness is the most important tool... but you need to have some basic tools for observation first. 

not sure if we are talking about the same psychological needs...

Edited August 21, 2018 by now is forever

[MrDmitriiV]

Despite some individuals like me being cold as ice, there are humans like @tsuki @Zweistein @now is forever radiating enormous love.

I never feel well approaching fire, for I am afraid that my rock/ice like nature will disturb it...

forgive my presence

[tsuki]