Why do I=you=we exist?

[Zweistein]

Oh - don't get me wrong. 50% of the time I totally enjoy nihilism, but in the other 50% I rather learn and create. 

Apparently, I still have to learn a bit about nihilism ? Creating might actually be a nihilistic act, too, since I'm in some sort of meditative state/trance when I create.

I guess my point is that I don't want to stop learning, which obviously involves some thinking and therefore, one easily looses touch with the present moment.... 

Edited July 23, 2018 by Zweistein

[now is forever]

4 hours ago, Zweistein said:

Oh - don't get me wrong. 50% of the time I totally enjoy nihilism, but in the other 50% I rather learn and create. 

Apparently, I still have to learn a bit about nihilism ? Creating might actually be a nihilistic act, too, since I'm in some sort of meditative state/trance when I create.

I guess my point is that I don't want to stop learning, which obviously involves some thinking and therefore, one easily looses touch with the present moment.... 

nihilism means the absolute no to any meaning - you are cute. 50/50 is difficult. when you are spiritual. creating is no nihilistic act because it‘s mostly a yes. you are stopping to think then because it’s some kind of body expression that works without words, more in pictures and through the body process. you stop thinking because you balance your body and mind, like in a meditation, or in sports. 

nihilism is more a philosophical, sometimes political worldview. maybe you have to decide between yes and no to meaning. that‘s why you are asking the question about the why.

you could ask yourself, does life have meaning and why does it have meaning - nihilism would trigger you leaving the no. but it can overshoot, and destabilize you. you can work on the meaning part though without that.

or you could take some time off your family and let yourself fall into the absolute chaos and reorganize everything.

it‘s a choice.

Edited July 23, 2018 by now is forever

[Zweistein]

I just had 5 days without kids and husband and guess what I did?

I completely reorganized & minimized stuff in our house and in my office (which was a complete mess - believe me!). Letting go of sooo many things - feels incredible ?? 

[now is forever]

do you collect stones? just asking, because it reminds me of someone.

letting go of stones is a big challenge sometimes. but watching them wandering, you’ve already done that.

maybe understanding what stones mean to you and why you have to let them go on with their path, will tell you something about the why.

if you don’t try to interprete, just feel what the stones mean to your heart. and then let them go.

Edited July 24, 2018 by now is forever

[Zweistein]

1 hour ago, now is forever said:

do you collect stones? just asking, because it reminds me of someone.

letting go of stones is a big challenge sometimes. but watching them wandering, you’ve already done that.

maybe understanding what stones mean to you and why you have to let them go on with their path, will tell you something about the why.

if you don’t try to interprete, just feel what the stones mean to your heart. and then let them go.

Yes - I used to collect rocks in the first half of my life until I understood that they were a substitute. I had a need to hold on to stuff to fill my emptiness.

Nowadays, I feel more and more "complete" and it gets easier and easier to let go of stuff.

 

[now is forever]

♥️ i know someone who has a hundred or more stones - she says all stones are her stones and could never let go of the past. i‘m glad you only have two.

caring for them and letting go of them finding their path and not clinging to all the other stones - sometimes is a challenge.

sometimes it’s good to say a clear no to stones if someone wants to give you theirs - it‘s impossible to carry them all - better to sort them out.

and because you carried so many, there must be a real power woman inside of you! ? heavy lifter 

Edited July 24, 2018 by now is forever

[tsuki]

On 19.07.2018 at 11:27 AM, Zweistein said:

Nevertheless, I'm fascinated by the fact that others can see your shadow better than you can see it yourself. Feel free to tell me what you see in my shadow - I'm happy about feedback and of course, it's also completely fine, if I don't get any.

@Zweistein What is your relationship with disappointment?

[Zweistein]

11 hours ago, tsuki said:

@Zweistein What is your relationship with disappointment?

Emotions come and go easily these days. I understand that emotions come along with monkeymind thoughts and I (as observer) can choose to believe or not to believe in these thoughts.

What's your relationship with disappointment, Tsuki? ;-)
 

[Zweistein]

Why did I choose this title for my journal: “Why do I=you=we exist?”

I’m here in the forum and I’m asking this question because I have a little tiny-tiny bit of hope that some of us can actually come together and work as a team & combine our infinite potentials (while keeping judging and egos at minimum). If we don’t manage to do this, it’s of course ok, too. I understand that it’s a huge-huge-huge amount of responsibility and that manipulating systems can backfire in unpredictable ways. I’m here to help connecting the dots and to keep improving myself. It’s the only way that makes sense for me at the moment.

[Zweistein]

My secret energy boost - not secret anymore now ;-)

 

[tsuki]

7 hours ago, Zweistein said:

What's your relationship with disappointment, Tsuki? ;-)

@Zweistein To me, disappointment is a feeling that I associate with fragmentation. Fragmentation being the lack of I=you=we.

It has something to do with defying my expectations by the 'other'.
I strive to make my understanding as universal as possible and tend to assume it as such.
I feel disappointed when I perceive that 'the other' fails to look within himself/herself and connect to what I'm trying to convey.
The assumption that my reasoning is universal is of course the root cause of my disappointment, and thus it is not a 'fatherly disappointment' that says: you better act like I expect you to.

It is more of an ungrounded feeling that points to that there is a chasm in I=you=we through which either of us is unwilling to jump.
Either because the context of the situation does not warrant such leap of faith, or that there is a lack of intelligence (on either part) that fails to recognize the position in which 'the other' finds himself/herself in.

Disappointment is a pointer that I=you=we should strive to uphold the context in which it is appropriate to 'let the other person in'.
That is sometimes difficult if I recognize the understanding presented by 'the other' as something that I have came out of by contemplation.
If that is the case, then I'm usually compelled to guide the person out of their point of view, but that is often met with resistance.

Resistance is understandable in the sense that the place where I'm at is mostly filled with the unknown.
Unless the other is willing to let that unknown in, there is no explaining that will do my understanding justice.
This understanding will be re-contextualized into whatever is perceived by that person and made into knowledge.
I hope that it is impossible and ultimately leads to contradiction and paradox.

Of course, my willingness to transmit the unknown to the other is equally responsible for disappointment, as his/her willingness to transmit knowledge.
My basis for not accepting this knowledge however does not come from rejection, but from exhaustion.
I simply see it as uninteresting. To me, it is a tool to arrive at deeper and deeper levels of the unknown.

[Zweistein]

4 hours ago, tsuki said:

@Zweistein To me, disappointment is a feeling that I associate with fragmentation. Fragmentation being the lack of I=you=we.

It has something to do with defying my expectations by the 'other'.
I strive to make my understanding as universal as possible and tend to assume it as such.
I feel disappointed when I perceive that 'the other' fails to look within himself/herself and connect to what I'm trying to convey.
The assumption that my reasoning is universal is of course the root cause of my disappointment, and thus it is not a 'fatherly disappointment' that says: you better act like I expect you to.

It is more of an ungrounded feeling that points to that there is a chasm in I=you=we through which either of us is unwilling to jump.
Either because the context of the situation does not warrant such leap of faith, or that there is a lack of intelligence (on either part) that fails to recognize the position in which 'the other' finds himself/herself in.

Disappointment is a pointer that I=you=we should strive to uphold the context in which it is appropriate to 'let the other person in'.
That is sometimes difficult if I recognize the understanding presented by 'the other' as something that I have came out of by contemplation.
If that is the case, then I'm usually compelled to guide the person out of their point of view, but that is often met with resistance.

Resistance is understandable in the sense that the place where I'm at is mostly filled with the unknown.
Unless the other is willing to let that unknown in, there is no explaining that will do my understanding justice.
This understanding will be re-contextualized into whatever is perceived by that person and made into knowledge.
I hope that it is impossible and ultimately leads to contradiction and paradox.

Of course, my willingness to transmit the unknown to the other is equally responsible for disappointment, as his/her willingness to transmit knowledge.
My basis for not accepting this knowledge however does not come from rejection, but from exhaustion.
I simply see it as uninteresting. To me, it is a tool to arrive at deeper and deeper levels of the unknown.

I'm so glad that I asked you this! You have a wonderful talent to put this into words! I feel very similar and it almost feels like a Déjà-vu or like I already know you, which apparently would hold true if we put it in the I=you=we context. 

Please keep pointing and explaining - I'm here because I'm willing to let the unknown in and jump the chasm.

Can we train our brains into infinite intelligence?
We might need quite some patience and figure out a good way to balance thinking/learning and being still in order to not get too exhausted, don't you think?

 

[Zweistein]

Will the lonely butterflies ....

... be able to come together and synchronize infinite potentials?

 

[Zweistein]

In case we=you=I think that my journal is "too good-looking", here is some shadow work for all of us:

Could it be true that we want to be seen?

Could it be true that we want to pretend to be "as smart as possible"?

Could it be true that we feel that it seems impossible to heal our loneliness?

Could it be true that we are addicted to come to this forum to crunch insights?

Could it be true that we are addicted to learning as substitute for unconditional love that we didn't get when we were young?

Could it be true that we fail to live in and really enjoy the present moment when we come here to crunch insights?

Edited July 25, 2018 by Zweistein

[tsuki]

@Zweistein Thank you for your kind words. I love answering questions.

20 hours ago, Zweistein said:

Can we train our brains into infinite intelligence?

There is this vague hint within me that total peace with whatever is is equal to infinite intelligence.
To be able to jump any chasm and understand where the other is coming from.
Regardless of whether the other is a person, or any part of Maya.
Because who said that I=you=we is limited to living beings in a biological sense?
Who said that I am a biological being that should empathize with others?
I have never seen my face. I have seen a mirror, though.

[Zweistein]

@tsuki

What is the difference between "vague hint" and "believe"? ?

Today I realized why it might not be so smart to ask why questions ?

 

[Zweistein]

@tsuki

What is your relationship to nihilism and learning? How do you find balance? 

[tsuki]

5 minutes ago, Zweistein said:

What is the difference between "vague hint" and "believe"?

@Zweistein I never considered this difference. I simply used a word that felt appropriate.
After reflecting on it, I think that the difference lies in openness towards the I=you=we.

I think that beliefs are aggressive in nature. One believes in order to orient oneself in the world.
If one is not accustomed with the unknown, one becomes upset when beliefs don't work in a particular situation.
By not working, I mean - the hierarchy of things (values/importance) is being messed with, and whatever one holds dear is brought among beings with no significance.
It's like when you tell a Christian, that the Holy Bible is just a fantasy book. That upsets his hierarchy (order) and the unwillingness to face the unknown (chaos) makes him suffer. What beliefs tend to do is to make people try to influence 'the other' so that the other conforms to the believed hierarchy. They try to change the world so that it doesn't upset their order.

What I called a 'vague hint' is different in its nature. It is non-aggressive.
Beliefs arise as a substitute of contemplation. Contemplation being a process in which things become unknown, so that one can watch like a child.
This hint is born (or rather, is open) as a result of contemplation.
This hint is not something that is used to orient myself in a hierarchy of separate things. That particular hint that I was talking about is a hint of totality that joins instead of severing. It cannot be used for orientation.

What hints do, as opposed to beliefs, is actually upset the order (the inner order) so that the order fits whatever arises.
That is why I was talking about its relationship to infinite intelligence. It bears similarity to a still mind, but it has nothing to do with the mind per se.
It is a singularity within the mind. It is neither no-mind, nor a mind. 
Thinking of it as a hint is not a good way to put it. As a 'vague hint', it is much more 'vague' than it is a 'hint'.
It is a form of openness, a smear, a cloud, a mist, a smoke, a water. It does not cut things into order, nor it can be cut.

Do you know what I'm talking about? Do you have any words (cuts) to point towards it?

[Zweistein]

How about intuition? ?

And yes, it feels like I know what you are talking about!

[tsuki]

3 hours ago, Zweistein said:

How about intuition? ?

@Zweistein Intuition is exactly the word I was looking for. Thank you.

There is a deeper connection to learning and nihilism I will go into later. For now, I think that your diagram is incomplete:

The squares are logic-based. It is a symbolic, mechanical manipulation of knowledge.
Transitions however are intuitive and occur when there is an equilibrium within a stage.
When all beings within a stage are of equal importance. When search within a stage in exhausted.