being present is shit

[Viking]

I define being present as being aware of thought movements, not being caught up in them.

Everybody says "be present", when you walk, eat, do laundry, whatever. I see this as a waste of my life. I could at the same time entertain myself with music, listen to an audiobook, contemplate, for example about how to improve my life or others'. This is much better than "being present" because presence is so meaningless, it has no point, meaningless is the same as not having a point, why in the fuck would i do something that has no point?

I meditate because it improves my concentration, and im more aware of myself WHEN I NEED TO. for example being present allows me to delude myself less, but that rarely happens (or at least it rarely helps), also being present allows me to be less emotional. I dont see a reason to be present ALL THE TIME. Why would I need witness consciousness in my daily life? it only helps with problems, which is less than 1% of my daily time. the rest of the time its just trying hard for no reason whatsoever.

also I dont believe in the concept of being fulfilled all the time, if you inquire yourself out of every meaning you have youre going to have a shitty life, empty, and emptiness is... emptiness! its nothing, why in my current state would i want that, i want to feel life, who the fuck cares that its the truth, what i care about is fullfillment. What I think the best life is, is maximizing the time spent in meaningful engagement (yes meaning doesnt really exist and I create it but it feels good and thats all i care about) by following passions. That may entail truth seeking for best decision making, knowing what to do in life, but still, thats to create more fulfillment.

Im pretty convinced intellectually that im not the body, nor the mind, even though I know I still believe that, I think its hard wired to believe that. What I think I am is whatever is watching, AKA what is being watched, awareness. BUT THAT HAS NO FUCKING IMPLICATIONS on my life at all, all the desires in "my" mind say that fulfillment is the best, so this body is going to try to achieve that, and not go to a monastery and waste it's life for example.

obviously I dont know some stuff (a lot) and havent experienced shit, but thats what I believe right now.

[Arkandeus]

many concepts

your inner compass is showing the way

excitement, joy, passion, feeling good

you  seem to be able to hear your inner compass

[Salvijus]

Well done@Viking

I see you had some breakthrough on what you want in life good work

About being in the present moment. It just means live consciously, be awere. It's moving from compulsions to consciousness. 

There're many reasons one should move towards conscious living and being in the moment but I'm not gonna go into it now. 

This confusion is part of the growing proccess. Keep going, you're going in the right direction.

[Echoes]

@Viking You are always "present" no matter what you do. Contemplating, listening to audiobooks/music and thinking is also being present. It is all  what's happening. So [thinking about a future problem] is still being present, because it is what's happening. You can never be not present, and you are obviously not really in an imagined place only because you imagine you are in that place.

It is all here now - everything (including the most distorted agitated mind states with pathological worrying about a future). Of course you resist this, because [you] depends on the idea of a place that is not "now" to escape into. But do you really think there is fullfillment in a place that is only imagined?

 

Edited July 11, 2018 by Echoes

[pluto]

Being Present when you truly be present is the most amazing and natural experience you could ever experience. I do not believe you have tapped into true presence because when you do its a glimpse of absolute freedom in that moment and you will know it to be the most natural state of your being.

Even a second of absolute presence is enough to shift your life completely to a whole new direction. You have to step back(so to speak) in awareness to experience this to its truth(if you will).

 

 

Edited July 11, 2018 by pluto

[Guest Quanty]

If you are bored with being full present you haven't experienced it yet  

[Viking]

@Echoes but theres a difference between that and being aware that im present

@Arkandeus actually i think my inner compass is broken, all of that stuff are just desires, i dont feel i should necessarily go there

[WelcometoReality]

@Viking you can still be present and listen to music and audiobooks etc. Being present means you actively listen to it. Have you ever listened to an audiobook and suddenly come to realize you have no idea what they are talking about because you've been caught up in your thoughts? A whole chapter gone because you been thinking what to do next saturday. Just notice that and put back attention to the audiobook. 

You can use that practice to whatever you do. Notice you've been lost in thought and put your attention back to the present.

[Viking]

@WelcometoReality I understand, but I dont think thats the kind of presence I was talking about. What I meant more is to be aware of the present moment, not really concentrating on something. like paying attention to the breath while going on a walk.

[NoSelfSelf]

Being present is to realize nature of reality beyond thoughts and emotions if you are caught in that you are not present...

[Highest]

''all the desires in "my" mind say that fulfillment is the best, so this body is going to try to achieve that, and not go to a monastery and waste it's life for example''

True fulfillment comes with the absence of desires. Every desire is a bondage. You will not find fulfillment in the future nor will you find it when you have desire in you. I can assure you of this.

[Dodo]

Being present is *THE* shit

Edited July 11, 2018 by Dodo

[Till]

I once washed the dishes in a Zen-monastery and it turned out to be the greatest event in my life I experienced. Compared to that, events like falling deeply in love with a wonderful girl or reaching a goal after a few years of hard work to reach it turned out to be  a pretty mediocre event. This wasn't some kind of "Kensho", I was just exceptionally present for like 10-15 minutes and it felt like 2-3 hours. 

[Viking]

24 minutes ago, Highest said:

''all the desires in "my" mind say that fulfillment is the best, so this body is going to try to achieve that, and not go to a monastery and waste it's life for example''

True fulfillment comes with the absence of desires. Every desire is a bondage. You will not find fulfillment in the future nor will you find it when you have desire in you. I can assure you of this.

i don't know if it is so. without any desires life would be empty, there will be no fulfillment, there will be nothing, just as well as being dead. sure, there would be no suffering also and no desire to resist that nothingness but nonetheless i dont see the point in that.

i also dont agree that there wont be any fulfillment with desires. ive had plenty of fulfilling times in my life and i had desires at the same time. if i could increase the intensity and frequency of those fulfilling moments, combined with a balanced mind, i think i could call that a fulfilling mind. sounds much better than 'nothing'

i also dont see how can one life without desires.

[Highest]

20 minutes ago, Viking said:

i don't know if it is so. without any desires life would be empty, there will be no fulfillment, there will be nothing, just as well as being dead. sure, there would be no suffering also and no desire to resist that nothingness but nonetheless i dont see the point in that.

i also dont agree that there wont be any fulfillment with desires. ive had plenty of fulfilling times in my life and i had desires at the same time. if i could increase the intensity and frequency of those fulfilling moments, combined with a balanced mind, i think i could call that a fulfilling mind. sounds much better than 'nothing'

i also dont see how can one life without desires.

Fulfilling moments, fulfilling times, exactly. It comes and goes, that is not fulfillment. One can live perfectly without desires, there is much peace and fulfillment in that. Without desires life can indeed feel empty and even dead, but it is in that emptiness that you become fulfilled and complete. You don't fully understand emptiness my friend, it is a beautiful thing.

[tsuki]

@Viking Different stages of development require different stimuli for growth.
If mindfulness has no traction for you, then go ahead and find fulfillment in whatever you are doing.
At some point you may (or may not) find that it doesn't get you anywhere and decide to try something else.
This something else may be mindfulness, or some other spiritual practice you've not yet come across.

When it comes to inquiring yourself out of all meaning, it is an exercise that lets you see that you do not actually do things for any reason in particular.
The idea that you construct your own meaning is a preliminary bait to get you interested in this phenomenon, but it is not actually true 100%.
When you talk about constructing meaning, it implies a purpose of said meaning (such as fulfillment or happiness).
This fulfillment is meaningful because of what, exactly? If all meaning is self-constructed, then who constructed your meaning of fulfillment? 
Chasing meaninglessness is not really about that. It is about arriving at meaningless meaninglessness.
Only then you can be free to be enslaved by your desires.

Stripping yourself of all meaning is nothing other than arriving at consciousness, as everything is meaning, just like everything is consciousness.

[Viking]

@Highest how can there be beauty and fulfillment in meaninglessness? its empty! it shouldnt be fulfilling nor beautiful, just empty.

@tsuki

1 hour ago, tsuki said:

When you talk about constructing meaning, it implies a purpose of said meaning (such as fulfillment or happiness).
This fulfillment is meaningful because of what, exactly? If all meaning is self-constructed, then who constructed your meaning of fulfillment? 

I get that, but why should I go after meaningless meaninglessness? why not enjoy this life, even if it just appears like I do? because of this ?

1 hour ago, tsuki said:

Only then you can be free to be enslaved by your desires.

is that better than enjoying life? (talking from my perspective now, obviously nothing matters from the empty perspective)

[robdl]

22 hours ago, Viking said:

I define being present as being aware of thought movements, not being caught up in them.

Everybody says "be present", when you walk, eat, do laundry, whatever. I see this as a waste of my life. I could at the same time entertain myself with music, listen to an audiobook, contemplate, for example about how to improve my life or others'. This is much better than "being present" because presence is so meaningless, it has no point, meaningless is the same as not having a point, why in the fuck would i do something that has no point?

If one thinks they are present, but the "I" or "thinker" is still in operation, is it true presence?  The "I", which is a part of the movement of thought-self itself, and is made out of memory, experience, knowledge (i.e. the old).     So if the old/the "me" is meeting the present moment, is it true presence?  It's the past meeting the dynamic present.

Edited July 11, 2018 by robdl

[Faceless]

30 minutes ago, robdl said:

If one thinks they are present, but the "I" or "thinker" is still in operation, is it true presence?  The "I", which is a part of the movement of thought-self itself, and is made out of memory, experience, knowledge (i.e. the old).     So if the old/the "me" is meeting the present moment, is it true presence?  It's the past meeting the dynamic present.

Great questions indeed. 

If the (the self) is looking at something in the now, that looking is being interpreted by the past itself. Therefore the newness of “now” is diminished-reduced, and therefore we have imposed the old onto the new. We have projected what has been and what we want to be, onto the fact of what is. 

We could then say that presence is, when  “the i” is not. 

 

@robdlThose are the kind of questions that bring about presence-awareness-holistic observation. 

[who chit]

@robdl @Faceless
Beingness, i.e,Presence, is being in the timeless.
In the absence of self-I'ness/thought,is abiding joy,contentment,peace.