Ego development through the stages of spiral dynamics

[Capital]

Red - barbaric ciotic undeciplined - Ego 

Blue - god obeying and nation belonging - Ego 

Orange - Success oriented - Ego 

Green - excessive Caring for the extrnal  - Ego 

Yellow - Systems thinking and non judgmental - Ego 

Terqoise - No Ego

 

 

[Capital]

51 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Turquoise still has an Ego.  I would type Turquoise’s Ego as follows:

Turquoise: Benevolent and Truth-leaning influences across a Network of Perspectives.

Nobody has no Ego.

I think that truly enlightened and self transcended people have no self agenda at all .. so basically they have no ego .. I'm talking about an ideal turquoise now ! 

[Charlotte]

I've often wondered this myself, can you TRULY ever transcend ego...COMPLETELY??

[Capital]

5 minutes ago, Charlotte said:

I've often wondered this myself, can you TRULY ever transcend ego...COMPLETELY??

In one of the Leo's hauawi retreat videos he mentioned that the Buddah was dead when he was physically alive but his body continued teaching . 

[Faceless]

Is there a such thing as Ego or psychological growth?? 

Why do we strive to psychologically grow?? 

Do we seek security in this idea of growth as the i, to evade the fact of insecurity and impermanence of the i?? 

Is there a psychological “i” in which can grow? Is there any permanence as “the i” at all? 

Does this perpetual striving to maintain psychological security nourish division-duality as the i, and therefore cause only contradiction, confusion, conflict??

And if so, does not the existence of this contradiction, confusion, conflict, only further manifest itself as fear resisting its own movement as fear?

 If there is any form of psychological fear, can there be psychological security?? 

So, is the desire to seek psychological growth as the ego simply an illusion seeking  security in an illusion?? 

And if we continually chase the illusion that psychological security can be captured by cultivation of thought, doesn’t this actually cause that very reality of psychological insecurity??

 

So again, is there psychological growth, or is there only an ending of all of the above?? 

 

As long as there is disorder (contradiction, confusion, conflict, fear, psychologically, can there be freedom? And without freedom from all that, is “psychological growth” actually psychological slavery?? 

Questions one can ask themselves, if they want to go deep into the structure of psychological becoming (time). 

 

 

[Charlotte]

@Faceless This really sparked my interest faceless. What's the alternative? Doing absolutely nothing? It's extremely paradoxical because when we self actualize, we are stripping away ego but your saying even self actualizing is still feeding ego?

[Faceless]

On 7/11/2018 at 0:26 AM, Charlotte said:

What's the alternative? Doing absolutely nothing?

Life demands action. Question what quality of action? Do we want to act incomplelty, moving in accordance to fear seeking the illusory psychologically security, or do we want to act completely(holistically) which comes only in absolute freedom? 

On 7/11/2018 at 0:26 AM, Charlotte said:

It's extremely paradoxical because when we self actualize, we are stripping away ego but your saying even self actualizing is still feeding ego?

Is that so ? Have you gone into that in depth? 

 

Or is this a hope, assumption, fear seeking an answer in the illusory movement of  psychological time?

 

My original post was only to provide questions for another to explore. If we only seek a means to end problems, we will miss the point all together. 

To me, it’s not about seeking answers to solve problems (a means to an end) as that implies effort-ego, but instead understanding the problem, in which produces it’s own action-answer. 

Ultimate psychological freedom is not the result of fear seeking to end fear, but the understanding and seeing the futility in so doing. In that understanding-seeing is the ending of fear, as the i who seeks security in time. 

 

I’m not sure how far you have gone into thought-self. I would continue learning about that. In that understanding all such questions are obvious to one who has explored in depth. If you do that, this will all be quite apparent. If you put all your energy into this within months you could find yourself in living a life of complete freedom from time-self. If you continue to try and cut away one little piece at a time, which is what thought-ego does, you will get caught up year after year in the never ending process of psychological growth, which in actuality perpetuates and nourishes the ego. 

 

Anyway, there is nothing wrong with wanting to improve your life, the problem comes in when we depend on “improving” to satisfy psychologically needs. We do need food, shelter, to take care of our families, perhaps  help others we know in relationship, and so on, but if you have to feed the ego (imagined entity) just to maintain psychological order, then all action from that ego is then limited, narrow, incomplete, and born of fear. As long as that is the case there is no FREEDOM, but slavery that has disguised itself as FREEDOM. 

Again, please don’t ever take anyone’s word for it, especially mine, but explore into the self-thought and go beyond once you have done so. Only the ego tells us we cannot go about it oursleves, but it’s clear the ego doesn’t want to end itself, so why would we want to listen to something with an opposing agenda? Remember thought, the ego, is not seperate from you, “the ego and the you” are one and the same movements of thought-time. 

 

I am not against personal growth when it comes to practical-functional affairs. Building a nice life for oneself is an intelligent thing to do. But if we are influenced by fear to find a life purpose-meaning, then what we choose will ultimately be conditioned by that very fear, and therefore that implies there was no freedom to discover that purpose-meaning at all. Then that purpose and meaning was the result of psychological insecurity. 

 

Freedom comes first, and in that ultimate freedom there is no fear 

 When we are absolutely free, meaning and purpose are born of that complete and infinite action, which is Freedom.

 

It doesn’t end there either, freedom is the in the beginning. In this freedom lies the sacred, the timeless realm, the ending of the conditioned conciousness as we know it, consciousness with no-thing in it. Observation without measure. In this there is beauty, joy, and a movement in which is totally creative(new and fresh). 

Or as I refer to it, to be Headless?

 

Very Important !!!

 

But, we must start nearer to what is actually the case in our daily lives, which is what is the case in ourselves now. Start with fear, understand it, start with pleasure, why we seek it, start with psychological suffering, why we escape it, and so on. Start by understanding the self, and that which the self is born from, which is thought. 

 

Anyway, that’s the way I see it buddy. It’s up to you to how you want to go about living life free of conflict. As long and there is psychological conflict, there can be no beauty. And life without beauty, why bother.??‍♂️

Edited July 13, 2018 by Faceless

[Charlotte]

@Faceless Thank you for that beautiful response faceless, I agree with everything you said. 

 

I have been watching fear, I have been watching psychological suffering and desire seeking etc, I see it all as some kind of escape, I see it all feeding from each other and its self perpetuating but my only issue is I don't know how to take this further... To REALLY get into the nitty gritty of it and go even further. 

You said to thread... 

On 11/07/2018 at 4:52 PM, Faceless said:

. I would continue learning about that.

The only "learning" I get is from you, I've tried googling it all but it's given me nothing, it's not detailed enough. Could you point me in the right direction please faceless? Because honestly, hand on heart... I fully agree with this...

On 11/07/2018 at 4:52 PM, Faceless said:

If you continue to try and cut away one little piece at a time, which is what thought-ego does, you will get caught up year after year in the never ending process of psychological growth, which in actuality perpetuates and nourishes the ego. 

 

[Charlotte]

On 11/07/2018 at 4:52 PM, Faceless said:

It doesn’t end there either, freedom is the in the beginning. In this freedom lies the sacred, the timeless realm, the ending of the conditioned conciousness as we know it, consciousness with no-thing in it. Observation without measure. In this there is beauty, joy, and a movement in which is totally creative(new and fresh). 

Also as you know, I experience this often and your right it's beautiful ❤️

[Faceless]

2 hours ago, Charlotte said:

I have been watching fear, I have been watching psychological suffering and desire seeking etc, I see it all as some kind of escape, I see it all feeding from each other and its self perpetuating but my only issue is I don't know how to take this further... To REALLY get into the nitty gritty of it and go even further. 

When you have seen this all holistically it you it will unfold on its own. “You” won’t take be taking anything further. Truth will act on it’s own. Don’t worry. Try not to get caught up in stages, progression, and all that thought fuel. All that perpetuates measure, thought-egos favorite. 

Have you talked to @robdl anymore since the last time? I feel he can also point you in a direction that will be of value. We may also be able help you connect the dots as to see a more holistic understanding of the self-thought. We may be able to show you the significance-importance in passive awareness as well perhaps. 

But ultimately you observing the fact that is going on in yourself is of most value. Without controlling-influencing of course. 

Anyway it’s impostant to not be doing all of this merely to solve “your” problems. Think of this as understanding questions to “human” problems born of thought-self. After all we all basically are the same when it comes to the conditioned consciousness. It’s much healthier and efficient when we don’t taint the investigation by seeking a means to an end. Any way that’s the way I go about it. I do see simultaneously that it is a necessity to do all this, but at the same time that I must aware if I am doing all this to escape what is, which the cause of all this psychological disorder in the first place. You know fear evading fear which nourishes fear?

Anyway maybe you, i, and @robdl can go start a dialog-conversation of sorts. We can walk together in this. After all, we are all beginners of life. 

[Faceless]

Incompatibility is the result of contradiction. As long as fear influences action, one will live a conflicting and  incompatible life. 

This has nothing to do with Easy-West. This has to to do with the human consciousnes. Which is basically, fundamentally the same. I have met people in the east, they are burdened by the same conflict as people here is the west. Same old contradiction. Hehe

Ditch the idea of eastern-western wisdom-philosophy and all that jive. Ditch all that nonsense...What it comes down to is seeing the fact in yourself. Keep it simple, because to over complicate an already complex mind is unintelligent indeed. 

 

You can puruse (live an actualized life) if you want. Only do you want to live such a life that is fueled by fear of not “arriving” hehe 

 

We do not have to feed the ego, to live a healthy life. ?

unless you think you do ??‍♂️

Edited July 13, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

i see myself as a normal dude. No more or less significant than any other. To speak of these “big boys” as if they were advanced and what not is a joke. 

I am only verbally pointing at somthing which has an tremendous significance. If I can end this psychological seeking without conforming to all the propaganda that is out in the mainstream, you better believe I will share that with who ever is interested. 

I haven’t been doing this too long now. For me freedom was not premeditated-cultivated. I have only been learning how to better communicate all of this with that last 7 months. I am fairly new to all this, yet I feel my communication-technique does need to be cultivated. Maybe some day I will share on a larger scale, maybe not. 

You see if we understand oursleves very deeply we already contribute to the whole. You and I are no different than society. The “individual” is a reflection of the society, and the society is an expression of the individual. It all starts with us my man. Only an ego thins it can change the world by trying to change others. Lol 

I am sharing with others, because I see the truth in the fact that I and other, are really one consciousness that likes to separate as divide itself as distinct-separate entities. 

Again I do what I do. When it comes down to it, as long as we live healthy-sane lifes, we contribute to the whole of man-kind/world. 

Anyways thanks for your response my friend??

Edited July 13, 2018 by Faceless

[11modal11]

I’m going to develop the biggest ego of all time.. the question is, is this pursuit the most or least egoic pursuit of all time because you would automatically be acknowledging complete separation from ego in order to even attempt this pursuit

[11modal11]

If I identify as infinity right now could my ego possibly get any bigger...maybe I should identify as my individual ego because then my ego can be small ?? strangleloooooppssss looll

[Faceless]

54 minutes ago, 11modal11 said:

If I identify as infinity right now could my ego possibly get any bigger...maybe I should identify as my individual ego because then my ego can be small ?? strangleloooooppssss looll

Any form of identification implies fear. Thought seeking security in its own movement of division as an independent entity separate from fear.  ?

Edited July 14, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

1 hour ago, Etagnwo said:

You got to literally programme this habit out of yourself 

Ah but, you are the program, so who is doing the deprograming?? 

This is how the subtle notion of “the you” being seperate from the program (division), plays a key role in the controller and the controlled falsity. 

Do you see??

The self (experience, knowledge, memory) “Acting on” that same movement of experience, knowledge, memory, has put together as the self. It’s so much more simple than accumulating all this knowledge, experience, and so on. This is all a problem of misunderstanding the whole of this movement as the self-thought. 

A lot of people don’t see that all positve and negotive action of the self only nourishes this contradiction, confusion, conflict. 

This is self perpetuation at it’s best. 

 

Crazy how tricky it is huh. 

 

 

 

[Faceless]

2 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I’m helping myself first and foremost.

Sure, I’m helping myself as I see the truth in the fact that I am not an individual, but am humanity itself. This division is only manifestation of the divisive structure of thought. 

So yes selfishness in that sense ?

 Never been much into looking for approval though. I actually take a natural interest into all this. Understanding the thought-self is interesting

Edited July 14, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

1 minute ago, Etagnwo said:

@Faceless lol. You're just responding to your version of my words..You clearly have no idea what I'm suggesting, you just project your own assumptions. Maybe Joseph can grasp what I'm saying...maybe not. 

I’m not attacking man. I am understanding what you are saying. 

[Faceless]

@Etagnwo

I understand what you were implying, and I agree with a lot of it. I also agree with the spiritual bypassing phenomenon that you suggested. This thread is about ego, so I just wanted to point out the programmer is the programmed fact. 

You know, It doesn’t have to be a battle between us man. We are related whether you like it or not. ??‍♂️

Edited July 14, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

Ok ?