Jordan Peterson on Incels and Female Hypergamy

[Emerald]

4 minutes ago, Elisabeth said:

Maybe the point is ... they are not as clearly separated for a lot of women (and a lot of men who are in touch with emotions, no doubt). 

To get a "I want to fuck" feeling based only on looks ... yeah... that's quite rare for me. And even if I do, if I than see the guy do something disrespectful ... the attraction will just vanish *poof*. That quick.

On the other hand, I can go on fantasizing about a guy because he's clever. Or some average dude suddenly becomes attractive to me because he's handled a situation in an admirable way.

See, I can't separate sexual and romantic attraction clearly. Somewhat, yeah.

I can't speak for all women obviously. Nor am I the woman these guys are after when they seek casual sex. So feel free to disregard, just please make a mental note "oh, for some people there's no such thing as looks=attraction sex drive". 

That sounds correct to me. I think it is the case that the deeper attraction has to really be engaged to really compel the majority of women to engage romantically with a man in any way. There are a ton of exceptions, like if a woman wants to have a one-night stand or something to shake things up a bit and have a novel experience. But for me personally, there's not really enough of an emotional payoff to want to have a random experience like that. The erotic emotions just won't be there for a man who isn't THE man that I'm attracted to. The meaning that I derive from the feelings of attraction is the most powerful aphrodisiac there is. Everything that I said, is especially true given the potential physical, emotional, and social consequences of such an experience. The potential bad often far outweighs the good. 

[SFRL]

28 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

The women body is just a form where behind is consciousness.  A man who is talking about us like you are doesn't make a woman in her prime want to invest her time in you. It shows craving for a body and no care for the being behind. This doesn't show any type of love and respect, just objectification and the promise for a shallow relationship.

 

 

My dad has been with my mom since they are 19 and 18 and still happily married.

My mom is a very pretty woman. 

[now is forever]

maybe just maybe - to give you guys something to think: emancipation is not only for woman - and for women it’s not about being against men anymore.

what would it be to be an emancipated man? ( also in terms of integrating the view of women )

could be an answer to many of your problems

 

[Emerald]

25 minutes ago, kingroboto said:

lol it's just humor ladies, with some does of truth in it. Don't get all triggered now

'lol. It's just a little lemon juice. Don't get all triggered now.'

Says the person with no cuts on them to the person with a lot of cuts on them. 

You and other men can take what you said as a joke because you'll never have to experience aging in the same way that women do. For women, it's a really big existential crisis, because they are told their entire lives that their looks are what makes them important. So, when a woman's looks fade with age, statements like the one that was made above is anything but a joke. It's pouring lemon juice on deep wounds. 

So, forgive us for not laughing. You wouldn't either if you were a woman. 

[Emerald]

3 minutes ago, now is forever said:

maybe just maybe - to give you guys something to think: emancipation is not only for woman - and for women it’s not about being against men anymore.

what would it be to be an emancipated man? ( also in terms of integrating the view of women )

could be an answer to many of your problems

 

I actually made a video that gets at this question a bit, in a round about way. It's about Divine Feminine integration. 

 

[SFRL]

1 minute ago, Emerald said:

'lol. It's just a little lemon juice. Don't get all triggered now.'

Says the person with no cuts on them to the person with a lot of cuts on them. 

You and other men can take what you said as a joke because you'll never have to experience aging in the same way that women do. For women, it's a really big existential crisis, because they are told their entire lives that their looks are what makes them important. So, when a woman's looks fade with age, statements like the one that was made above is anything but a joke. It's pouring lemon juice on deep wounds. 

So, forgive us for not laughing. You wouldn't either if you were a woman. 

52 minutes ago, kingroboto said:

Well my mom laughed....

See you don't get it. We don't experience aging like you do. But women they don't experience growing up and having to builds up your sexual attractiveness like guys do. 

Being a woman is like starting out with a job that pays 500K a year straight out of highschool and then make a little less every year. Then get fired at 30 and having to work on the garbage truck. 

Shit we are not the same. Pros and cons to both I guess. Both Feminists and Incels can't accept that reality. You actually have a lot in common. 

[now is forever]

@SFRL what - you are kidding me ? as if we didn’t have to fight for who we are. ask a woman what she does every morning in the bathroom to be attractive. and please once try to walk in high heels.

Edited July 10, 2018 by now is forever

[kingroboto]

exactly, this is the way the universe is. It's brutally fair in a very unfair way. Believe me I sympathize with you women who are close to hitting your wall without a husband because you bought into the strong independent career woman meme. I'd be lying if I said I don't take a little bit of pleasure from this fact just because I've been ignored by the female population most of my life, but what can I do I still have a little bit of resentment left in me i guess. 

 

 

Edited July 10, 2018 by kingroboto

[SFRL]

7 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

Cool analogy, lol. 

Well, yes but in the end men are both the company owner and the garbage truck contractors.

I'm in my late 20s now, but 20 something girls are most of the time underdeveloped and naive about the world. Its pretty much being a novice driver with a ferrari on a race track. Danger is at every corner and you've got to make the right choice or ruin your life.

1 hour ago, kingroboto said:

So you are complaining you got a Ferrari for your Sweet 16?

Now that's a spoiled brat.....

[Emerald]

2 minutes ago, SFRL said:

Well my mom laughed....

See you don't get it. We don't experience aging like you do. But women they don't experience growing up and having to builds up your sexual attractiveness like guys do. 

Being a woman is like starting out with a job that pays 500K a year straight out of highschool and then make a little less every year. Then get fired at 30 and having to work on the garbage truck. 

Shit we are not the same. Pros and cons to both I guess. Both Feminists and Incels can't accept that reality. You actually have a lot in common. 

Well, your mom probably laughed because you're dad said it and she's probably already older. Older women tend to be much more acclimated to being written out of the sex narrative than younger women because they've already been around the block. They also know that the world doesn't go away because they've aged. Many have completely transcended cultural narratives around sexuality.

But if you're talking to women in their 20s and 30s, they're terrified of being written out of the sex narrative for good. It's something that I've struggled with personally. I already feel at age 29 that I'm not attractive and don't deserve pleasure because I'm not under the age of 25. And it's a major blockage on my personal power which is derived from libidinal energy. Intellectually, I know that this narrative isn't 100% true. There are a ton of desirable women in their 30s, 40s, and 50s. But that's the effect of that kind those kind of narratives. It makes me feel that my sexual desires are invalid, which causes a lot of repression and less personal power to come to the surface.

But young men are attractive to young women. So, they have the ability to be attractive in high school, college, middle age, and old age. So, men are never completely written out the sex narrative. But once a woman gets to be about my age (or more realistically about four years younger), they are pretty much written out of that cultural narrative for the rest of their lives. So, to say that it's somehow the same level of bad, isn't true.

That's especially true given the fact that the most of the attention that young women get is unwanted and sometimes scary. It's often their universal attractiveness and appeal that make them easy to fit into narratives that diminish their personhood and power. They are seen as objects and not subjects.

For men, personal development and sexuality go hand in hand and tend to compound to make a man more and more attractive as he ages. For women, personal development and sexuality have an inverse relationship, where personal power grows as sexual attraction shrinks. It's a hard reality to come to terms with.

So, if you look at this issue being one of the rift between personal power and sexuality, you will see that the issue that Incels are going through is not similar in any way to what women go through. 

 

 

[now is forever]

@kingroboto well as all energy is just energy you can still direct that into working on yourself - that’s emancipation.

and who says we are like that. maybe we get the juggler award.

[SFRL]

13 minutes ago, now is forever said:

@SFRL what - you are kidding me ? as if we didn’t have to fight for who we are. ask a woman what she does every morning in the bathroom to be attractive. and please once try to walk in high heels.

Sure you had to fight. But when it comes to the Western World I really don't see the inequality anymore. You won the fight. The corpse has been dead for while. Stop beating it you psychopaths. It's getting perverted. 

Edited July 10, 2018 by SFRL

[now is forever]

@SFRL what - there is no fight - except for the fight with yourself - realize that.

watch fightclub.

Edited July 10, 2018 by now is forever

[SFRL]

7 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Well, your mom probably laughed because you're dad said it and she's probably already older. Older women tend to be much more acclimated to being written out of the sex narrative than younger women because they've already been around the block. They also know that the world doesn't go away because they've aged. Many have completely transcended cultural narratives around sexuality.

But if you're talking to women in their 20s and 30s, they're terrified of being written out of the sex narrative for good. It's something that I've struggled with personally. I already feel at age 29 that I'm not attractive and don't deserve pleasure because I'm not under the age of 25. And it's a major blockage on my personal power which is derived from libidinal energy. Intellectually, I know that this narrative isn't 100% true. There are a ton of desirable women in their 30s, 40s, and 50s. But that's the effect of that kind those kind of narratives. It makes me feel that my sexual desires are invalid, which causes a lot of repression and less personal power to come to the surface.

But young men are attractive to young women. So, they have the ability to be attractive in high school, college, middle age, and old age. So, men are never completely written out the sex narrative. But once a woman gets to be about my age (or more realistically about four years younger), they are pretty much written out of that cultural narrative for the rest of their lives. So, to say that it's somehow the same level of bad, isn't true.

That's especially true given the fact that the most of the attention that young women get is unwanted and sometimes scary. It's often their universal attractiveness and appeal that make them easy to fit into narratives that diminish their personhood and power. They are seen as objects and not subjects.

For men, personal development and sexuality go hand in hand and tend to compound to make a man more and more attractive as he ages. For women, personal development and sexuality have an inverse relationship, where personal power grows as sexual attraction shrinks. It's a hard reality to come to terms with.

So, if you look at this issue being one of the rift between personal power and sexuality, you will see that the issue that Incels are going through is not similar in any way to what women go through. 

 

 

Well I got me a 43 year old Cougarina at the moment and she is still plenty hot so I guess there is hope? She is a nice Cougar. 

[kingroboto]

jokes aside let's be real 90% of men age into disgusting slobs so take comfort in that

 

me personally one of my fantasy is to have a sexual relation with a hot cougar, in a sort of student / teacher kind of way.... 

 

maybe i should join a yoga gym

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, d0ornokey said:

Sooo this is what RSDtyler said a few days ago:

"I keep fucking falling into this trap.

I read posts like this, and I think "Ya I'm being too extreme".

Then I meet a "good girl" and I try to game her without all the fuck-boy stuff ......... and I get SHUT DOWN.

The girl will even say "I just want to meet a guy who runs a business and doesn't do drugs and has a level head" and it's like HELLLOOOOOO I'MMMM HEEERRREEEE!!!  

And then they go date a drug addicted degenerate.

I fall back into that trap because of the negative influence of this forum and mainstream society that keeps telling me "A high quality woman will appreciate a high quality guy".

Which is just flat wrong.

I'm a high quality guy and I like HOT women.  I often date Instagram models and strippers because they are insanely hot.

You can laugh at this and call it a flaw in my character, but when you have a perfect 10 professional hottie riding your cock.... I gotta be honest, there are few physical pleasures in life on that level.

So if I fall into the same trap, and I'm a quality guy I think ... then i gotta remind myself that women do too.

And stop believing this "quality attracts quality" bullshit.

Humans are humans.  We like to feel super super super good whenever we can.  So be a sexual guy with women and they will appreciate it.  Stop correlating all this career and personal development shit with getting laid - too idealistic, not based in how reality actually works.

Tyler"

So does Tyler mean this exclusively for having sex and getting laid at the club? So does this mean getting laid as not orange will be difficult? 

Or because hes too orange value system and doesnt know better?  

This is so toxic and neurotic I don't even know where to begin deconstructing it.

That's how the world looks like when you're at Tyler's level of consciousness.

At higher levels of consciousness, it does not look like that.

The fundamental problem with PUAs is, they want to bang the hottest 0.001% of girls, a new one very week, and when that girl rejects him or refuses to sleep with him within 4 hours of meeting him, he gets pissy and blames her for it. Because of course PUA can't be wrong by definition.

Are young women in their early 20's attracted to low-quality men? Of course! In the same way that people are attracted to low quality food. The solution isn't to start another McDonalds. The supermodel girls in their 20's are immature and unconscious and have no idea how to select proper mates. PUA then blames and exploits them for it.

Yes, you will definitely have more sex by manipulating girls. Just like you will definitely earn more money by manipulating and cheating customers. But that's not what you really want in the end.

You don't really want a new supermodel girl every week. What you want is 1 girl who are able to love and build a deep relationship with. She doesn't even have to be that hot. That's your insatiable ego at work.

The counter-intuitive move for Tyler here would be to say, "I will surrender my desire for sex with a new super-model girl every week." The problem isn't that he can't get girls. The problem is that he is trying to reach God/Infinity through sex/girls/pickup, and this will NEVER work. Materialism never works. But rather than admitting that, the PUA will blame the women.

You have to understand that PUAs are fundamentally incapable of being in relationships because they are too narcissistic and manipulative to have an honest, intimate, loving relationship. They are too immature to be vulnerable and to commit to one woman. Many PUAs are really just sex and ego addicts without realizing it. PUA becomes just another materialist escape, no different than TV, drugs, or porn. It's a 1st and 2nd chakra activity -- driven by very low consciousness needs.

[kingroboto]

5 minutes ago, SFRL said:

Well I got me a 43 year old Cougarina at the moment and she is still plenty hot so I guess there is hope? She is a nice Cougar. 

please share with us your secrets. Where do I go to hunt for these elusive hot cougars?

Edited July 10, 2018 by kingroboto

[Emerald]

10 minutes ago, kingroboto said:

exactly, this is the way the universe is. It's brutally fair in a very unfair way. Believe me I sympathize with you women who are close to hitting your wall without a husband because you bought into the strong independent career woman meme. I'd be lying if I said I don't take a little bit of pleasure from this fact just because I've been ignored by the female population most of my life, but what can I do I still have a little bit of resentment left in me i guess. 

The thing is. I have a husband and I've been with him since I was 20. It doesn't have to do with wanting a partner or anything like that. It has to do with narratives being pushed on me my entire life, that are designed to squelch women's personal power. It sets up a narrative that women's main value in the world is through their level of physical attractiveness. And it also says that once a woman hits 30, that she no longer has value in the world. 

So, there comes to be rift between women's natural sexual energy and their personal development. It's society's way of cutting women off from their power source and dis-allowing the Divine Feminine to be expressed into the world. And it hurts when you're young for a woman. and it hurts as you age. 

But I'm sure that you do take pleasure in it. Cultural narratives are designed to keep women's natural energy cut off. And the most effective way to do that is to construct narratives, where men relate their own value to female validation. So, women, who actually lack power, seem powerful to men who buy into narratives centered around the idea that women's attraction is somehow a conveyor of worth. So, of course a man who has had no success with women, will love it when women are struggling. It makes him feel like, "Finally those bitches are being taken down a peg and getting a taste of their own medicine."

But this is a distortion. Women have always has less power, so it only adds more insult to injury. If you zoom out a bit, you will be able to see it. It's not about sex. It's about taking validity, authenticity, and expression from women as they age. And only allowing them validity when they're young and fit neatly into narratives around male sexuality. 

[Emerald]

15 minutes ago, SFRL said:

Well I got me a 43 year old Cougarina at the moment and she is still plenty hot so I guess there is hope? She is a nice Cougar. 

That's my point. Women can still be attractive as they get older. But the cultural narratives don't reflect that. The cultural narratives are difficult to buck because they are drip fed to women since they were in early childhood. So, it's difficult to unpack for women and for many to feel entitled to have sexual feelings, pleasure, and libidinal power. 

[kingroboto]

@Emerald Not sure I buy into that completely. Obviously you have your own distortions just like OP does. I'd argue there's just as much pressure for guys to achieve success before the scary 30 because culturally it has become some kind of a universal milestone where you're suppose to move mountains and have your whole life set by that point or else you are deemed a failure.  Once I got past the point I got over it, but it's funny looking at 27-29 yr olds dreading about hitting 30 

Edited July 10, 2018 by kingroboto