Jordan Peterson on Incels and Female Hypergamy

[Samra]

@MM1988 why you hit on your friends? Are you guys really friends , or you have ulterior motives? If you do have other motives, would you ultimately call that a friendship? Can your "friend" trust you , or you are not trustworthy? 

 

Edited July 10, 2018 by Samra

[now is forever]

@Emerald this whole women are a capital thing, i use to forget that sometimes. it‘s quiet disturbing - to see how far we‘ve come and still seem to always return to that point.

[Emerald]

11 minutes ago, Samra said:

This thread gives me the chills though. I agree and resonate with @Emerald on this issue. You guys need to hang out with women just to make some friendships first. I knew all of my boyfriends before I dated any of them, either from work, school, classes or friend of a friend , or even my friend! I was friend with my partner for one year before we really went for it. You never know. I have never dated a stranger. You guys talk about women as if we are not human. We are not that different. Maybe try and get to know us first a little bit so you can see for yourself. You wanna be with someone who you can hang out with first. Make real connections , and sexual relationships will happen naturally. 

It is a really a yucky feeling to look at it, for sure. They really have no clue how actual real human women are.

But these guys really do actually believe what they say and what the propaganda tells them. So, men who buy into the propaganda, put themselves in all kinds of negative mindsets and really do see women as both super-human and sub-human at the same time. It's almost as though they psychologically put women up on a pedestal and see them as automated worth-conveyors for men. Then, because they don't like the fact that women are on a pedestal in their minds, they psychologically drag their idea of women down from that pedestal and stomp on it to lessen the women's perceived power in determining their worth. 

But that's only because they feel powerless, and they want to blame someone for that powerlessness. The best advice I can give to them is to get away from the computer and interact with real people in life. It's the isolation behind a computer screen that takes the humanity out of all interactions. If Tinder is the only dating experience that someone's had, it's really distorting natural dynamics. And it's easy to confabulate the worst narratives around women's attraction because it doesn't work similarly to men's attraction. 

But the isolation allows them to dehumanize and objectify women by thinking of them in a two-dimensional way. And they are psychologically enslaved to their image of womanhood, which is the main way that they experience women is through that image. So, because that image has power over them, they cope with it by projecting powerless onto it. Kind of like in the third Harry Potter when they used the 'Ridiculous' spell on the Boggart, making something scary seem trite or silly. It's the same idea. 

So, when they create/believe these narratives, it's basically them projecting their own tendencies toward objectification and dehumanization onto women. They think that women are attracted to men in a similar way to the way they're attracted to women. But women who are genuinely attracted to a guy, are anything but objectifying and dehumanizing. They like a guy just because of how he is, and NOT how closely he matches arbitrary objective standards. 

[Sea]

@Emerald You're talking about 2 different things though. "Guys are only attracted based on looks" applies for sex only. For a guy to want to be in a long-term relationship with a woman the attraction will need to be on a deeper level. So you're comparing male sexual attraction with female romantic attraction, which is apples and oranges. 

[MM1988]

5 minutes ago, Samra said:

@MM1988 why you hit on your friends? Are you guys really friends , or you have ulterior motives? If you do have other motives, would you ultimately call that a friendship? Can your "friend" trust you , or you are not trustworthy? 

 

I thought they are friends but they are also attractive to me. They messaged me a lot some time so I thought why not try more they might feel the same. They didnt though.

[Emerald]

8 minutes ago, Sea said:

@Emerald You're talking about 2 different things though. "Guys are only attracted based on looks" applies for sex only. For a guy to want to be in a long-term relationship with a woman the attraction will need to be on a deeper level. So you're comparing male sexual attraction with female romantic attraction, which is apples and oranges. 

My very point is the male and female attraction work differently. So, I agree with the point that male and female attraction are apples and oranges.

That said, it's very common that men use looks as their main standard for whether or not they're attracted to a woman. So, they tend to defer to objective qualifiers to determine whether or not they will go out with someone. There can be other objective qualifiers too. But it's still a list of things, that if a woman has them then they will consider dating her. It's objective and uses the rational mind.

Women, on the other hand, tend to get deeper and more intuitive initial attractions. So, a woman won't necessarily know why she's attracted to a guy. All she will know is that she wants to be as close to him as possible. She will be attracted to him just because he is who is his. So, it's very selective. But it's non-objectifying. If a woman is deeply attracted to you, it usually means something to her. 

Edited July 10, 2018 by Emerald

[SFRL]

2 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

Thats cool you are considering it. I've been in a relationship for more than half a decade now, so a thread like this isn't a reflexion of my needs. But I'd be in for participating too and try to bring anything I can  

Well there you go. 

[Samra]

5 minutes ago, MM1988 said:

I thought they are friends but they are also attractive to me. They messaged me a lot some time so I thought why not try more they might feel the same. They didnt though.

@MM1988 thanks for the honest answer. I think you are not too far off. You might have become too bitter. Maybe you are in love with one of these girls , and the rejection is hard. Treat women with love and respect, and show them your are trustworthy. The JP stuff are not all good. Follow your own natural manly gut. Forget about the bullshit on the internet. I will step out of this thread cause it's just weird. But I wish for you a nice romantic love soon. 

[now is forever]

@Emerald but that goes also for friendship - or soulmates - i realized. i used to confuse that sometimes when i was a teen. you are pointing that out quiet well.

real love comes with trust and loyalty and commitment. that’s why relationships often don’t survive.

[kingroboto]

38 minutes ago, MM1988 said:

@kingroboto I'm 29. Ive not given up yet but it looks dark. I'll try my luck with women for some more time but then I will go  into permanent virgin monk-mode. So far my life experiences match with the worldviews I and JP laid out here.

I get it man, I've been where you were. You whine here because you want your view to be validated so you don't have to put any effort, don't take any risks, and just wallow in your misery with other 80% losers, because that's still more comfortable than trying something new. I'm turning 33 soon, you have 4 yr head start. The way I look at it is you have the rest of your life to improve yourself. (or don't, because none of this really matters at the end) imagine yourself achieving everything you wanted at age 30 - what the fuck will you do for the other 60 yrs?

"men age like wine, women age like bread" - Patrice O'neal  (rip)

Edited July 10, 2018 by kingroboto

[Sea]

4 minutes ago, Emerald said:

My very point is the male and female attraction work differently. So, I agree with the point that male and female attraction are apples and oranges.

That said, it's very common that men use looks as their main standard for whether or not they're attracted to a woman. So, they tend to defer to objective qualifiers to determine whether or not they will go out with someone. There can be other objective qualifiers too. But it's still a list of things, that if a woman has them then they will consider dating her. It's objective and uses the rational mind.

Women, on the other hand, tend to get deeper and more intuitive initial attractions. So, a woman won't necessarily know why she's attracted to a guy. All she will know is that she wants to be as close to him as possible. She will be attracted to him just because he is who is his. So, it's very selective. But it's non-objectifying. If a woman is deeply attracted to you, it usually means something to her. 

You don't get what I said. There isn't just one type of attraction.

[now is forever]

both get dry though and wine often gets sour. amen

[SFRL]

1 minute ago, kingroboto said:

"men age like wine, women age like bread" - Patrice O'neal  (rip)

"Men start to look more and more like George Clooney the older they get. Women start to look more and more like George Clooney the older they get as well" - My Dad

[kingroboto]

1 minute ago, SFRL said:

"Men start to look more and more like George Clooney the older they get. Women start to look more and more like George Clooney the older they get as well" - My Dad

your dad is a very wise man

Edited July 10, 2018 by kingroboto

[now is forever]

that‘s so low consciousness you should ask yourself who is talking there. certainly not yourself - maybe the offspring of your problems.

[Sea]

Women have a poor understanding of why male attraction manifests the way it does.

[kingroboto]

lol it's just humor ladies, with some does of truth in it. Don't get all triggered now

[now is forever]

@Sea obviously dito

[Emerald]

15 minutes ago, Sea said:

You don't get what I said. There isn't just one type of attraction.

I went back and read your first post, and I see what you're saying now.

That's ultimately the difference between initial attraction and the deeper levels of attraction that happen thereafter. The deeper level of attraction that happen afterward are quite similar in both men and women. But in the initial stages of attraction they tend to present differently. For many men (probably most), it tends to be more objective and general. For women it tends to be more intuitive and particular. 

But if a two people get into a relationship together, the initial dynamic fades away and give way to a completely different dynamic. But most of the guys on this thread are only focused toward that initial dynamic, because they haven't had a lot of success with dating. So, they tend to look at relationships through the lens of the initial dynamic.

And they tend to project a lot onto women because all they're familiar with is their own initial attraction dynamic, which tends to be objective and general. So, they assume that women are the same level of objective only with far more particularity and selectivity. So, because of this error in thinking, it makes them feel like they're inadequate as a person and the cards are stacked against them, when they actually aren't. 

[Elisabeth]

53 minutes ago, Sea said:

@Emerald You're talking about 2 different things though. "Guys are only attracted based on looks" applies for sex only. For a guy to want to be in a long-term relationship with a woman the attraction will need to be on a deeper level. So you're comparing male sexual attraction with female romantic attraction, which is apples and oranges. 

Maybe the point is ... they are not as clearly separated for a lot of women (and a lot of men who are in touch with emotions, no doubt). 

To get a "I want to fuck" feeling based only on looks ... yeah... that's quite rare for me. And even if I do, if I than see the guy do something disrespectful ... the attraction will just vanish *poof*. That quick.

On the other hand, I can go on fantasizing about a guy because he's clever. Or some average dude suddenly becomes attractive to me because he's handled a situation in an admirable way.

See, I can't separate sexual and romantic attraction clearly. Somewhat, yeah.

I can't speak for all women obviously. Nor am I the woman these guys are after when they seek casual sex. So feel free to disregard, just please make a mental note "oh, for some people there's no such thing as looks=attraction sex drive". 

Edited July 10, 2018 by Elisabeth