Jordan Peterson on Incels and Female Hypergamy

[MM1988]

 

What are your thoughts on this? Peterson basically says that female nature is to always date up, and that in a polyarmourous society all women will only go for a couple of top guys which destabilizes society - its what we see happening with incels right now where more and more sexless men resort to violence. Thats a really hard pill to swallow for the average guy because it seems that most of them which are now in their 20s or younger will go sexless and its only becoming worse.

 

I share a lot of these same beliefs even before peterson said it and I think its holding me back. Could someone try to bust them? It seems like everything peterson says is backed by studies, I just cant view women in a healthy way anymore.

Edited July 9, 2018 by MM1988

[CreamCat]

Female hypergamy is a biological instinct. I haven't experienced it directly, so I can't say it is the truth. You should directly experience female hypergamy.

Even if female hypergamy is a hard-wired instinct, it may be the case that it is not the driving instinct for some or many women.

The questions is whether women on average are reasonably satisfied with their good-enough male partners such that they are not tempted to date up or cheat.

If your girl friend is reasonably satisfied and still wants to date up, you should reconsider your options. Perhaps, the counterintuitive move is to let your girl friend go, or to seek a surrogate mother if female hypergamy ruins your relationships and you still want a progeny. Another counterintuitive move is to surrender and accept a life without a woman.

As a single man, I find it much easier to give up reproduction than to give up survival. For me, masturbation to porn satisfies me well enough. I can give up real sex if the cost of real sex is prohibitively expensive.

Don't worry too much about what other men do. Worry about yourself, first.

Edited July 10, 2018 by CreamCat

[Leo Gura]

Good God!

Enough of this nonsense.

Western society is still highly patriarchal.

The reason men are sexless is cause they sit around watching JP too much and playing video games all day. It's hard to have sex when you're sitting in your man-cave all day.

What ever happened to taking responsibility for your sexlessness rather than blaming women and society for it?

By Peterson's logic society should ban:

• TV
• Video games
• Internet
• Porn
• Virtual reality
• Smartphones
• Social media
• Nerd culture

That would solve most of your sex problems.

A real man doesn't blame women for his lack of development. Any guy can learn to get good with attracting women. But it takes inner work, and it requires going outside your man-cave and actually talking to women.

RSD is really the practical solution to the male problems JP rants about.

But of course then you've got all the problems that come with getting indoctrinated into RSD culture. Which I've already ranted about in the past.

What would really solve this problem is if schools did a better job of teaching boys and girls how to interact with each other.

[CreamCat]

Leo is a real man. We should learn to take responsibility for not having sex. Become attractive.

I was just entertaining the possibility that female hypergamy could be a truth.

I don't see female hypergamy as a problem. Women in casual relationships can leave men freely. So can men.

There's real problem with marriage laws, but that's a topic for another day.

Edited July 10, 2018 by CreamCat

[MM1988]

I agreee on paper, but if women only go for the top 20% of men there will always be an 80% of sexless men no matter how much anyone improves. There can always be only some men at the top. There could also be some genetical factors that mean that you cant reach the top 20% realistically.

How should you take responsibility for your sexlessness if the reason is that you are 5'3 and that just doesnt do it for most women - by doing dangerous and expensive limb lengthening surgery? 

 

Peterson actually doesnt say we should ban any of this, he just says we should enforce monogamy which would guarantee 1 female for every 1 male, instead of all females for a couple of genetically gifted man. The women wouldnt probably be super happy about this about this but its the only way to keep these bottom 80% guys from going nuts and to ensure that children can grow up in a normal family situation.

 

@Leo Gura

The hypergamy thing is also argued in a 5 star rated book in the relationships section on your list.

Edited July 10, 2018 by MM1988

[molosku]

23 minutes ago, MM1988 said:

I agreee on paper, but if women only go for the top 20% of men there will always be an 80% of sexless men no matter how much anyone improves. There can always be only some men at the top. There could also be some genetical factors that mean that you cant reach the top 20% realistically.

How should you take responsibility for your sexlessness if the reason is that you are 5'3 and that just doesnt do it for most women - by doing dangerous and expensive limb lengthening surgery? 

 

Peterson actually doesnt say we should ban any of this, he just says we should enforce monogamy which would guarantee 1 female for every 1 male, instead of all females for a couple of genetically gifted man. The women wouldnt probably be super happy about this about this but its the only way to keep these bottom 80% guys from going nuts and to ensure that children can grow up in a normal family situation.

 

@Leo Gura

The hypergamy thing is also argued in a 5 star rated book in the relationships section on your list.

Try this: I'll "let" you worry about the statistics as much as you'd like to, but only if you get 50 dates with 50 different women. See if you care about the numbers after that.

See which represents the world more accurately: your experience or the statistics. 

 

 

[MM1988]

@molosku working on it, ive not thrown in the towel yet just because of this

[molosku]

No matter how many slaps your ego suffers, you never throw the towel away. Never. 

[Leo Gura]

@MM1988 Mating is a tough game. You think women have it easy??

Dating is much easier for guys than girls, so spare us your JP crocodile tears. You have no idea the kind of shit women go through.

To expect top notch women to be handed to you on a silver platter sure sounds like communism.

Women don't own you anything. Become a quality man and they will come aflocking.

[Leo Gura]

 

[fireworld]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@MM1988 Mating is a tough game. You think women have it easy??

Dating is much easier for guys than girls, so spare us your JP crocodile tears. You have no idea the kind of shit women go through.

To expect top notch women to be handed to you on a silver platter sure sounds like communism.

Women don't own you anything. Become a quality man and they will come aflocking.

@Leo Gura What is the essence of a quality man according to you?

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, fireworld said:

@Leo Gura What is the essence of a quality man according to you?

For starters, someone who has a sense of life purpose and doesn't play victim or whine about women.

A man who complains about feminism isn't a real man, that's a pouting child.

A real man has something of value to offer the woman. And he treats women well, with love and respect.

[fireworld]

@Leo Gura Lol, I read this along time ago in Davids book on "Way of the superior man". When I used to work in sales i met thousands of men and I would say that maybe 1 in 200-300 guys actually had their shit together. This made me really feel for women. 

On the other hand, hypergamy is great in the sense that women who aren't very hypergamous will end up with loser men who will be loser dads and the circle continues.

The dream of having women who don't have standards is actually a nightmare.

 

[kingroboto]

I don't get Leo's hostility towards Jordan Peterson. His core message for young men is to stop whining, get off their fucking ass and become a proper man. I know that the left paint him as this evil alt-right figure head but I believe his message is very compatible with what Leo's preaching on his channel. 

[MM1988]

@Leo Gura how can you say dating is though for women when they can line up a date for every day of the week easily with their smartphone and just pick and choose the top men who "apply"? So whats the issue here, that she cant get that 1% rich 6'5 six pack guy? As an average man on the other hand you struggle to get a single date with a women thats well below you in looks and the bar for what is an "acceptable man" gets raised higher and higher every year. I dont see how that is easier. By the time you were into pickup Tinder wasnt a thing yet, dating is a completely different beast today.

 

By the way, i dont expect a top noth women or a supermodel, Im very very liberal with my standards, an average girl working at the supermarket counter would be awesome for me and im myself highly educated with a good job, fit, no debt, and have my life together all around.

Edited July 10, 2018 by MM1988

[Lorcan]

I understand.

If your genetic disposition for your appearance is not in your favour. It will be harder for you, the difficulty varying in how bad you look.

If your genetic disposition fro your appearance is in your favour. You will have an easier time, depending on good you look.

It is no ones fault (or perhaps no "one" persons fault). You were not the one in-control of whether you had genetic that make you look good or not. (Or perhaps you were, I do not know, it is a mystery, or was it? But from the default perspective, you and me are not in control). 

So naturally, it makes sense that those who were dealt a bad hand, will be a jealous of those who were dealt a good hand. It simply not fair. It is not in your control. The opposing party's have a better position then me by default! This can be quite triggering.

For  males who are average looking and below. This can be quite the predicament really.It depends on your perspective. Both sides suffer. Feelings of anxiety,envy and jealously, victimizing yourself, pointing fingers, feeling not-good enough. It is hard(but both satisfying) to improve yourself to be on par with your competition who just had it good by default. 

The pain of self-improvement is acute,and it is much easier to hollow away.

 

Saying this is one thing, embodying it is another.

 

Improving your self is really really fucking hard, especially in areas where your just shit in by default (looks).

 

 

[MM1988]

14 minutes ago, brovakhiin said:

You think that applies to every woman? This 80%/20% law you keep drawing from has no real world accuracy. Only the hottest girls could line up all those dates, and the top men dont hit up every women, only the top women. This 80/20 nonsense requires that the top men be fucking all the women which is not happening, because they have standars and only go for top women themselves. 

Just go outside and you would see how wrong it is, plenty of ugy guys with girlfriends. Plenty, plenty. It's not that hard to get a date with some basic understanding and non-neediness. Also, often better looking girls are actually easier because they're more open and less insecure. It's possible. Real life is more complex.

Just take a photo from the most average, or below average girl you know on your facebook, make a tinder account with it and get your mind blown. You can confirm this for yourself in 30 minutes.

 

Also, check this out: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=168948903&pagenumber=1

Your worldview is highly inaccurate and consists of delusional wishful thinking.

Edited July 10, 2018 by MM1988

[kingroboto]

1 hour ago, Etherial Cat said:

First I'd like to say that JP himself is no-evil figure. But you can not say his message can be reduced at "telling young men to stop whining, get off their fucking ass and become a proper man." 

Peterson is throwing among self-development tips his ideology and world view. Peterson's perspective is used by some JP followers to gaslight social groups affected by real issues. Now not only you have the chance to suffer X form of oppression, you'll also have to debate "Postmodern Neo-Marxism" with JP followers who know by heart their index cards, before getting them to acknowledge the daily reality you are experimenting. 

His stratospheric recent success is symptomatic of a collective ego backlash. Orange is resisting Green. 

could you give example of these 'ideology' and 'world views' ? What oppressed groups are you talking about? Have you even sat down to watch one of his lectures? 

[now is forever]

1 hour ago, MM1988 said:

Just take a photo from the most average, or below average girl you know on your facebook, make a tinder account with it and get your mind blown. You can confirm this for yourself in 30 minutes.

 

Also, check this out: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=168948903&pagenumber=1

Your worldview is highly inaccurate and consists of delusional wishful thinking.

i would not recommend this you would intrude to her personal rights. that’s quiet rude.

of course girls are drawn to attractive man - but guys are drawn to attractive girls as well. as long as it is only about the outside appearance and only about sex. but in the end (not hollywood reality) you often see a discrepancy in attractiveness in couples, one or the other way round.

for women it‘s actually a protection when men stay monogamous - because of childcare etc. but in reality sometimes it turns out to be a trap, for both. i think most women don‘t like to share one partner with other women, not in the long run. so well you have the problem that women want to choose or what? 

make yourself a choice, like already said. not only in your appearance, if you work on yourself and have qualities you’ll automatically attract woman who have qualities themselves.

you can‘t change the jerks that want to have one on every finger and you can‘t change the bitches that don‘t care they are jerks. 

if you just want to have sex with different girls - that’s another thing. 

actually there are more women than man living on this planet. this problem might only apply to countries where they kill baby girls or do birthcontrol in support of male baby’s, they have a problem - a huge one.

if you want to attract a woman, you have to work for that, it‘s not an itunes download. 

the political discussion is probably more about how to protect families that would be the better idea - in the end it‘s just about how to support the family ideal. means child protection and mother protection, even if the mother is a male.

everyone else is already doing what they want in privacy. why to get married for that if it‘s not for money support. just to have it on the papers?

another thing is how to make man monogamous if they are not forced to care? maybe that has to start somewhere.

Edited July 10, 2018 by now is forever

[d0ornokey]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

 

Women don't own you anything. Become a quality man and they will come aflocking.

Sooo this is what RSDtyler said a few days ago:

"I keep fucking falling into this trap.

I read posts like this, and I think "Ya I'm being too extreme".

Then I meet a "good girl" and I try to game her without all the fuck-boy stuff ......... and I get SHUT DOWN.

The girl will even say "I just want to meet a guy who runs a business and doesn't do drugs and has a level head" and it's like HELLLOOOOOO I'MMMM HEEERRREEEE!!!  

And then they go date a drug addicted degenerate.

I fall back into that trap because of the negative influence of this forum and mainstream society that keeps telling me "A high quality woman will appreciate a high quality guy".

Which is just flat wrong.

I'm a high quality guy and I like HOT women.  I often date Instagram models and strippers because they are insanely hot.

You can laugh at this and call it a flaw in my character, but when you have a perfect 10 professional hottie riding your cock.... I gotta be honest, there are few physical pleasures in life on that level.

So if I fall into the same trap, and I'm a quality guy I think ... then i gotta remind myself that women do too.

And stop believing this "quality attracts quality" bullshit.

Humans are humans.  We like to feel super super super good whenever we can.  So be a sexual guy with women and they will appreciate it.  Stop correlating all this career and personal development shit with getting laid - too idealistic, not based in how reality actually works.

Tyler"

So does Tyler mean this exclusively for having sex and getting laid at the club? So does this mean getting laid as not orange will be difficult? 

Or because hes too orange value system and doesnt know better?  

Edited July 10, 2018 by d0ornokey