Less is more? And it sucks.

[ctzonka]

Hi friends,

Why is it that the more you try in a friendship and in a relationship, the more the other seems to pull away. It's like always a game and the more I try the less my guy friends wanna hangout with me and the less I try with a girl the more she gives to me. I want to be able to give my all to someone and my friends, but this has been a problem my whole life so idk what to do. 

The only thing that seems to work is if I act, keyword being "act" like I'm confident as ever and don't care what they do whether with me or not. It seems like the more detached I am and the happier I act, the more people wanna be around me. But truth is, I'm happiest when I connect with others. But I struggle to even connect because when I try to connect they pull away. 

Anyone who's been through this have some advice? 

[Truth]

With friendships, this shouldn't be a big deal. if you want to hang out with your homies or even a girl that is your friend, no big deal. they're probably just busy, just keep making that effort in a detached way. 

If you have a girl that is your friend, there's a chance she probably feels like she's leading you on and can feel guilty about that especially if you guys never really had a talk that you're just friends, so be mindful of that.

If you start ignoring a little as you said "trying less with her." then that's her making an effort to keep you around because 1 she either likes you for a potential boyfriend, or 2 she really doesn't want to lose you as a friend. 

I think what you're calling "connect" is really neediness, because if it was just a "connection" then it wouldn't be a big deal, you're unplugged, you're okay, you're plugged in, you're okay. but if all of a sudden you find yourself not wanting to unplug after you've plugged in or haven't been plugged in for a while and really just need that connection again, then you can guarantee that you're needy and they can feel that, which means your insecure, which means you depend on them, which means that you can't be happy without them, putting all this pressure onto them to keep you happy, and when they can't or don't make that effort it leaves you feeling like shit and dissatisfied. 

I think you should really look at what you call "connection", because it's I'm pretty sure that it's 100% neediness, and as Leo and all the great teachers teach, is that your dependency on anything other than yourself for your happiness will toxify your life and could toxify the lives of other people. 

Edited July 6, 2018 by Truth

[ctzonka]

@Truth I agree with a majority of what you said. But when it comes connecting, I mean enjoying the little things in life, like talking about food, or crap that you think is funny. I don't do that because I feel no one really see's things my way and when I say something they just don't get it. 

 

Nonetheless that wasn't the main topic. I could see how it is neediness. Neediness to be happy and to enjoy other's. But I'm miserable alone and don't enjoy doing much. I'm not sure how to fix this or how to let go of a need for validation of others. Do you have any suggestions? 

[ctzonka]

@Truth Also if what you're saying is true. Then by eliminating this neediness you are implying that we as humans don't need anyone and should live completely alone because there is no need for others. Why try and connect or engage with others if you don't need them? 

[Truth]

27 minutes ago, ctzonka said:

@Truth I agree with a majority of what you said. But when it comes connecting, I mean enjoying the little things in life, like talking about food, or crap that you think is funny. I don't do that because I feel no one really see's things my way and when I say something they just don't get it. 

Well, that's just people that you just don't really connect with. It happens, we all grow up different, have different tastes etc. and it's awesome when you find someone who understands you, but that can be rare, but it's also what makes it so awesome when you have someone like that in your life. That's just life, just get out there and start making more friends and find that person (not dependent on them.) and have something awesome with them.

27 minutes ago, ctzonka said:

Nonetheless that wasn't the main topic. I could see how it is neediness. Neediness to be happy and to enjoy other's. But I'm miserable alone and don't enjoy doing much. I'm not sure how to fix this or how to let go of a need for validation of others. Do you have any suggestions? 

This is all the inner work that Leo teaches. Self reflecting, life purpose, getting your life on track, direction, knowing your values, knowing what you want, knowing what you don't want, understanding yourself, understanding people, truth, understanding happiness, what fear is, what your insecurities are and why they're there etc. 

24 minutes ago, ctzonka said:

Also if what you're saying is true. Then by eliminating this neediness you are implying that we as humans don't need anyone and should live completely alone because there is no need for others. Why try and connect or engage with others if you don't need them? 

Yes, you don't need anyone. I never said live completely alone. 

You connect and engage with other people cause you enjoy it. Not because you need it. 

Just like you eating cake. You don't need the cake. You ENJOY the cake. 

On the other hand if you need people's help financially or dependent on your parents then that's understandable, you can work your way out of that to improve your independency. 

You reep the BENEFITS of being in a relationship with people. you don't NEED the relationship like you need to take a shit or you need to eat. That would be like trying to turn your shit into more fuel. or like trying to eat to fill yourself up so you never starve again. It's not gonna work. 

Enjoy the relationships, enjoy the cake, don't need the cake or be dependent on the cake trying to fill yourself up so you never starve again. it's never gonna work.

 

 

 

Edited July 6, 2018 by Truth

[egoeimai]

Hello. I see. 

Is there neediness in those relationships.? Do you expect stuff from people and get disappointed? 

These could be the reasons,

Give attention without expecting anything. This is authentic.

 

[ctzonka]

@Truth

On 7/5/2018 at 11:33 PM, Truth said:

Well, that's just people that you just don't really connect with. It happens, we all grow up different, have different tastes etc. and it's awesome when you find someone who understands you, but that can be rare, but it's also what makes it so awesome when you have someone like that in your life. That's just life, just get out there and start making more friends and find that person (not dependent on them.) and have something awesome with them.

I feel I can connect with almost anyone if I become present and enjoy their company.  That's the thing, if I am happy and enjoying things myself I connect with all people. I'm like a chameleon and can enjoy anyone's company, no matter what their personality is. I worry sometimes that I don't have a personality though because I just say what people wanna hear.

However,  I have been going to therapy and even took anti-depressants, and I think a big part why I feel alone, sad, depressed, needy, and can't enjoy things alone is because of self-esteem. Often times when I feel accepted by others my own individual personality comes out, but this is only after being accepted. This is where the dependency on others comes from. 

 

@Truth I really enjoy and value your insights. Thank you!

[ajasatya]

@ctzonka be fully happy alone first. people fear neediness because it drains them.

vampires are dangerous. get away from them and don't be one of them.

Edited July 8, 2018 by ajasatya

[meryem]

well in this matter idid had issuea getting involved or melted with people too , my hand would be shaking while its for to talk when i am in the classroom or university i used to have that thing , but this not the point , the point is how did i got out of it ,, i did had an idea once about picking several hobbies that i like and go to meet ppl who r interested on that , fpr example u r fan of jazz music u see an event coming soon of jazz be there get to know people , by doing so You would end up with people or friends u see are comparible to your persnality if we may say , i can admit i have this friendship thing like you but iv been seeking for people's approval on everything but think of this if you please people you should know people do change so are their needs are going to be slave to people's opinion? You have an opinion too , personality , and a self and state of mind that have to be respected , need to boost your self confidence . On the other hand also your friends are somtimes different from what we are in fact , if ppl are different you dont need to feel guilty for yourseld that you are not like them . Again do not compare yoursefl to others , can You imagine if we were born the same what would have happen?? The world would be boring !

think in the other side , it is only your brain who makes things captive to you to act or be .

and stop acting , u should be

 

being is believing in yourself.

[ctzonka]

@egoeimai Yes there is neediness in my friendships and relationships. I often feel let down and also like everyone is against me. 

[ctzonka]

@ajasatya The thought of being alone terrifies me. It is boring and there is nothing to do that seems fun. Maybe there's a way to ease into it and spend a day alone a week or something along those lines? Because when I'm alone I shut down and don't do anything. I don't want to be a slave to other's I want to have a personality of my own. I think self-esteem is a good place to start. What are your thoughts on that? 

[Truth]

9 hours ago, ctzonka said:

@Truth

I feel I can connect with almost anyone if I become present and enjoy their company.  That's the thing, if I am happy and enjoying things myself I connect with all people. I'm like a chameleon and can enjoy anyone's company, no matter what their personality is. I worry sometimes that I don't have a personality though because I just say what people wanna hear.

However,  I have been going to therapy and even took anti-depressants, and I think a big part why I feel alone, sad, depressed, needy, and can't enjoy things alone is because of self-esteem. Often times when I feel accepted by others my own individual personality comes out, but this is only after being accepted. This is where the dependency on others comes from. 

 

@Truth I really enjoy and value your insights. Thank you!

Giving people what they want to hear is a very valuable trait and a strength, but I see that you're insecure that this ability to give people what they want is a bad thing, because it doesn't feel like it's coming from the right place (a strong identity/personality) and you're intuitions are correct and this is OKAY, there's nothing wrong with you, it's just time for you to grow. 

Here's the dynamic everyone goes through when trying to build up their self esteem --> 

Value Level 6 (where you're at) - Suplicative, wants acceptance, wants attention, needs value, needy, buying affection, "everyone is higher value than me..", selling yourself.

Value Level 7 (where you're going)- combative, loud, aggravated, emotional, polar opposed (going into the opposite extreme of not being a 6 anymore), "I'm valuable. Why doesn't anyone believe me? or see me?"

Value Level 8 (Where you're going) - Competitive, determined, value games, challenging others, attacking them/passive aggression, I'm right, you're wrong, extreme combative.

Value Level 9 (where you want to be) - I feel good, I make others feel good, I create value, I help, I'm growing, I'm polite & bold, I'm confident. 

---- and eventually moving up to the higher stages of seeing how this entire thing is playing out from a thousand foot elevation.

You will pass through these stages in your psyche whether you're aware of it or not. You might even see parts of your psyche already in this. 

You are building up your self image, this is what you NEED right now to move up (don't even worry about enlightenment/transcending the ego if you're looking at that stuff.) start getting success, start creating a life purpose, understanding what you value, what you like, what inspires you, find things that you see and think "that's me." even if it's a song, a video, or anything emotional you resonate with. the more you can understand and connect with your personality the more you'll be able to build your identity and ultimately be and feel "real".

 

Edited July 8, 2018 by Truth

[Moreira]

friends and girlfriends behave like cats. 

[Truth]

2 hours ago, Moreira said:

friends and girlfriends behave like cats. 

Are you trying to say they're pussies? 

[ajasatya]

11 hours ago, ctzonka said:

@ajasatya The thought of being alone terrifies me. It is boring and there is nothing to do that seems fun. Maybe there's a way to ease into it and spend a day alone a week or something along those lines? Because when I'm alone I shut down and don't do anything. I don't want to be a slave to other's I want to have a personality of my own. I think self-esteem is a good place to start. What are your thoughts on that? 

i think you're still to find your passion... something that you really enjoy doing alone and that brings prosperity to your life.

[ctzonka]

9 hours ago, ajasatya said:

i think you're still to find your passion... something that you really enjoy doing alone and that brings prosperity to your life.

@ajasatya  The question is, how do you find it? I think for me, it is a self-esteem thing that I need to address first before i can comfortably search for what I enjoy alone. 

[ctzonka]

@Truth Thank you for the advice man. Truly appreciate it!

[ajasatya]

48 minutes ago, ctzonka said:

The question is, how do you find it?

what do you want to be doing for living after your parents die? ask yourself deeply

[ctzonka]

@ajasatya  I'd say just to be happy.  I don't know what it is I'd want to work for. Maybe that's laziness, there isn't a type of work I "enjoy" doing. But when I'm living life and happy I do have other passions. So I think that will come next. Thank you for your advice. 

[Arkandeus]

be true to yourself, follow your desires, as long as your heart is behind it