From Orange pickup to Green Authenticity

[Truth]

15 minutes ago, SFRL said:

@Truth right exactly....the map is not the territory. 

oh, just pointing out your assumption without feedback that we didn't already know the map isn't the territory.

[SFRL]

If you start using Green as a strategy to pull more girls that's not Green imo. 

That's Orange dressing up as Green to gain a competitive advantage. It's to be expected in a Orange-Green society you got people showing up like that. It's still the Orange paradigm that is the driving force behind it. The end result is still: How can I get more/better girls? 

Maybe just maybe going Green you would have to give up this whole idea of how do I score a girl and start caring about other things, like animals, nature, other cultures, ethnicities, countries, etc. 

 

 

 

 

[Nexeternity]

@SFRL   Hey!  Yes I was talking here about moving from unhealthy orange to healthy green is all.

But healthy blue and orange people would also benefit from moving to green, like for example for the better sex.  Sure blue or orange can have healthy, loving sex, but green can introduce elements like the sacredness of sex, or tantric practices.

Makes for another avenue to bond further with your partner.

Not saying tantra is the end all be all or anything, just saying that blue and orange might not be open to trying it out.

@Icarus  When you become green and start hanging out with green people you will see that looks and genetics dont play much of a role.  Whats important is what you bring to the table beyond that.  You will see some "ugly" musicians with beautiful girls or a wheelchair bound spiritual guy with a hottie.  At that level though, nobody is ugly, you see that everyone is innocent and beautiful on the inside and you just happen to be sexually attracted to some people and not to others.

[Nexeternity]

@SFRL Yes exactly!  You have to let go of pickup altogether.  Yes without pickup you can still meet people that will like you for you and you will like them for them and yes, sex will happen.  But its not the point anymore.

If orange uses green as a strategy it will be seen through anyways, its impossible to fake things that well, the egoism will shine through 

[d0ornokey]

@aurum

[JustinS]

Green is throwing the whole pick up paradigm out the window and being sort of like a kid again in elementary school. Just Being You! No manipulations, innocence, and just honest. You genuinely care and want to spend time and get to know the other person. 

[SFRL]

10 minutes ago, JustinS said:

Green is throwing the whole pick up paradigm out the window and being sort of like a kid again in elementary school. Just Being You! No manipulations, innocence, and just honest. You genuinely care and want to spend time and get to know the other person. 

That all sounds very nice but that really only works if you are an attractive person already. 

Otherwise it becomes the "just be yourself" so many "nice guys" beta males struggle with. 

Edited July 7, 2018 by SFRL

[Icarus]

1 hour ago, Nexeternity said:

 

@Icarus  When you become green and start hanging out with green people you will see that looks and genetics dont play much of a role.  Whats important is what you bring to the table beyond that.  You will see some "ugly" musicians with beautiful girls or a wheelchair bound spiritual guy with a hottie.  At that level though, nobody is ugly, you see that everyone is innocent and beautiful on the inside and you just happen to be sexually attracted to some people and not to others.

Nice. Are you talking from experience, or is it just stuff you come up with? Are you getting laid regularly with "green girls"?
 

Do you think the fundamentals of sexual attraction change because of some new world views? I doubt it. We are talking about Sex. Sex itself, like the essence of it, is for procreation and dark dark RED. 

"You will see some "ugly" musicians with beautiful girls or a wheelchair bound spiritual guy with a hottie. " - Probably yes. The Musician who is ugly is... well ... a musician (high status) so he will get girls despite his looks. The Wheelchair spiritual guy is... well... a spiritual guy, probably in a cultish setting - therefore -> Status. 

Sorry to disillusion you, but it's not that simply. It's also not about "becoming green" lol - Looks and genetics have and will probably always play MUCH OF A ROLE in mating because they ensure the survival of our species. 

If you and this other weirdo @Truth still don't comprehend what I'm talking about: You two green salad leaves, now that you're green and not as orange as @SFRL anymore, you now prefer 

 

Her

 

Over Her:

Don't you????  

 

We are looking for the truth here and not for some fluffy reality to escape into.

 

[Icarus]

9 minutes ago, SFRL said:

That all sounds very nice but that really only works if you are an attractive person already. 

Otherwise it becomes the "just be yourself" so many "nice guys" beta males struggle with. 

Right.

And it's for a good reason. What we view as attractive physically resembles health. Certain facial/body features ensure us a person and their genes are healthy, therefore if we reproduce with them, our offspring will be healthy as well. No matter which colour they claim to be on an internet forum.

[JustinS]

@SFRL

39 minutes ago, SFRL said:

That all sounds very nice but that really only works if you are an attractive person already. 

Otherwise it becomes the "just be yourself" so many "nice guys" beta males struggle with. 

You're still looking from the Orange lens. What can I gain from this? How will it benefit me? 

Orange stage is necessary for attracting woman yes, but not sustainable.

The green dude probably has done relatively some inner work already and doesn't really need a girl, so to speak. Generally speaking, he is already cool with himself, loves himself, yadda yadda. Vs the orange dude who seeks constant validation, doesn't know how to really love himself, and doesn't have much capability to look inwards (I'm just generalizing here). 

To the green the whole Alpha, Beta thing is complete bullshit and almost makes them throw up in there mouths a little when they hear it. 

I've met men that aren't physically attractive but can expressive themselves so freely, feminine like, and just plain doesn't give a shit what others think of him and yet he is surrounded by the most beautiful woman I've ever seen. 

I would suggest you to go to 1) Go to Burning Man 2) take some acid 3) loosen up 4) and enjoy.  

Edited July 7, 2018 by JustinS

[Nexeternity]

@Icarus   Hey!  Yes from experience!  I am getting laid again finally being myself lol.

YES the fundamentals of sexual attraction do change!!!!!   First of all sexual attraction is heavily conceptually based... not sure if you read the Genius of Being by Peter Ralston, he talks about that. 

Before like in the 1700, chubby girls were hot because they were rich and could afford to gain weight, it was fashionable and hot to be chubby.

In Japan girls get their teeth changed to being crooked because its in style, its what is hot right now.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2271585/Japanese-women-paying-hundreds-pounds-crooked-fang-like-teeth-latest-cosmetic-craze.html

If you hang out with green people, you will see that an attractive model looking orange guy with "status" has no chance with those girls.  And yes, green guys will turn down and be turned off by superficial orange girls no matter how hot they are.

Ofcourse at first glance I would pick the second girl.  But if I catch the second girl kicking a puppy and I see that the first girl is really cool, loving person I would rather get to know that first girl, and who knows, maybe we could have chemistry and I could look past her not being the prettiest girl by my indoctrinated standards of beauty I have been imprinted with since childhood.

Transitioning to green is more "real" than being in orange.  You are more in your heart, in your body, outside of the standard worldviews and judgements that are so commonplace.

Again, its not bad to be orange.  Its just... well ... superficial and lacking in deep fulfilment. 

 

[SFRL]

10 hours ago, Nexeternity said:

@Icarus   Hey!  Yes from experience!  I am getting laid again finally being myself lol.

YES the fundamentals of sexual attraction do change!!!!!   First of all sexual attraction is heavily conceptually based... not sure if you read the Genius of Being by Peter Ralston, he talks about that. 

Before like in the 1700, chubby girls were hot because they were rich and could afford to gain weight, it was fashionable and hot to be chubby.

In Japan girls get their teeth changed to being crooked because its in style, its what is hot right now.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2271585/Japanese-women-paying-hundreds-pounds-crooked-fang-like-teeth-latest-cosmetic-craze.html

If you hang out with green people, you will see that an attractive model looking orange guy with "status" has no chance with those girls.  And yes, green guys will turn down and be turned off by superficial orange girls no matter how hot they are.

Ofcourse at first glance I would pick the second girl.  But if I catch the second girl kicking a puppy and I see that the first girl is really cool, loving person I would rather get to know that first girl, and who knows, maybe we could have chemistry and I could look past her not being the prettiest girl by my indoctrinated standards of beauty I have been imprinted with since childhood.

Transitioning to green is more "real" than being in orange.  You are more in your heart, in your body, outside of the standard worldviews and judgements that are so commonplace.

Again, its not bad to be orange.  Its just... well ... superficial and lacking in deep fulfilment. 

 

Well I was with a Green girl for 10 years and she was a total hippy, vegetarian since she was 9, her parents are total hippies as well. And I was this Athletic, macho, Alpha, martial arts guy. And it worked really well actually.

That you don't go around fucking a girl for a year and then you do and attribute to going  Green. But sometimes that just happenes. A broken clock shows the correct time twice a day as well. 

I believe you when you say that spontaneous encounter was very good. That's usually how it is if you have that rare click with someone.

I just got laid the other day and the experience was very similar to what you described in your opening post. It all just kind of happened. And I don't know this girl too well yet but if I have to put a label on her I would say Orange. 

There are nice people at all stages. Orange people don't go around kicking kitties. 

 

 

 

 

[SFRL]

12 hours ago, Icarus said:

Nice. Are you talking from experience, or is it just stuff you come up with? Are you getting laid regularly with "green girls"?
 

Do you think the fundamentals of sexual attraction change because of some new world views? I doubt it. We are talking about Sex. Sex itself, like the essence of it, is for procreation and dark dark RED. 

"You will see some "ugly" musicians with beautiful girls or a wheelchair bound spiritual guy with a hottie. " - Probably yes. The Musician who is ugly is... well ... a musician (high status) so he will get girls despite his looks. The Wheelchair spiritual guy is... well... a spiritual guy, probably in a cultish setting - therefore -> Status. 

Sorry to disillusion you, but it's not that simply. It's also not about "becoming green" lol - Looks and genetics have and will probably always play MUCH OF A ROLE in mating because they ensure the survival of our species. 

If you and this other weirdo @Truth still don't comprehend what I'm talking about: You two green salad leaves, now that you're green and not as orange as @SFRL anymore, you now prefer 

 

Her

 

Over Her:

Don't you????  

 

We are looking for the truth here and not for some fluffy reality to escape into.

 

That's kind of mean though put a picture of a girl up and call her ugly. That's still a real person somewhere out there.

Also there are probably a bunch of unattractive girls out there reading these posts and that's just not very nice to read for them either. 

That being said all thing being equal I would go with the girl in bottom picture as well instead of the girl in the upper picture. 

Also who is to say the pretty girl is not a nice person. Why would it be her kicking Kitty's and not the other girl? That's pretty messed up to assume a pretty girl is shallow or mean because she is pretty.

Then again maybe the upper picture was a bad picture of that girl.  And you got to factor in other things like personality and how good she actually is in bed. 

The relationship between looks and good sex is not necesairly 1:1. There is some correlation but it's far from the whole story. 

Now from a genetics point of view to spread our DNA I got to agree.

Edited July 8, 2018 by SFRL

[SFRL]

12 hours ago, JustinS said:

@SFRL

You're still looking from the Orange lens. What can I gain from this? How will it benefit me? 

That has pretty much been my own argument from the start in this thread. 

Now you take that argument and I am supposed to go defend myself against my own argument? How does that work? I don't got time for that.

[Truth]

14 hours ago, Icarus said:

Nice. Are you talking from experience, or is it just stuff you come up with? Are you getting laid regularly with "green girls"?
 

Do you think the fundamentals of sexual attraction change because of some new world views? I doubt it. We are talking about Sex. Sex itself, like the essence of it, is for procreation and dark dark RED. 

"You will see some "ugly" musicians with beautiful girls or a wheelchair bound spiritual guy with a hottie. " - Probably yes. The Musician who is ugly is... well ... a musician (high status) so he will get girls despite his looks. The Wheelchair spiritual guy is... well... a spiritual guy, probably in a cultish setting - therefore -> Status. 

Sorry to disillusion you, but it's not that simply. It's also not about "becoming green" lol - Looks and genetics have and will probably always play MUCH OF A ROLE in mating because they ensure the survival of our species. 

If you and this other weirdo @Truth still don't comprehend what I'm talking about: You two green salad leaves, now that you're green and not as orange as @SFRL anymore, you now prefer 

 

Her

 

Over Her:

Don't you????  

 

We are looking for the truth here and not for some fluffy reality to escape into.

 

You're defending the sociobiological perspective of the old ideals of provider and protector and that's fine, that is a factor as I've already told you, but you're putting it on this pedestal like it's the only factor or even the main component of attraction. It's not. you don't consider things like

- familiarity (knowing each other well or having subconscious rapport aka proximity attraction)

- Propinquity (developed social circles, the unique roles people play within those circles)

- Chemical attraction (scents, smells that link directly to our emotions that (might be a surprise to you) help us and remind us of things)

- Reinforcement (you make others feel more important and attractive just by being around them, making them more valuable and possibly more effective in the world & even more attractive in the world.)

- Similarity (Helping each other grow on insecurity levels, or complimentary insecurities --- you having a skillset that can help them overcome their insecurities and they have a skillset that can help you overcome yours)

Orange only sees the surface level crap. They can't see the engine under the hood, and from a evolutionary perspective, not being able to see under the hood and the deeper complexities leads to Oranges extinction.

 

Edited July 8, 2018 by Truth

[Nexeternity]

@SFRL  Hey there!  lol the kicking a kitty was just a ridiculous example I used to point out how things can turn you off about someone even if they are attractive.  Sorry if it sounded like I have a chip on my shoulder for the green stuff... its just that when you come from unhealthy orange doing pickup and finally can forget about it and "be yourself" and it works its just very exciting.  You are right about the great people in all stages

.@Timothy   Yea I did a lot of work on that the past few years.  Um... I dont know if I would call myself particularly confident, but just not unconfident.  I am pretty open and honest, loving and friendly... not perfect ofcourse lol, but its growing for sure as time goes by.  The list you made sounds like it can be helped just working on yourself.  Taking care of your body, life purpose, enlightenement, making friends... stuff like that heh.  

@Truth Nice analysis!  Reinforcement is huge.  

[aurum]

On 7/7/2018 at 11:03 AM, d0ornokey said:

@aurum

Like Biggie Smalls in that South Park episode, I have been summoned.

@Nexeternity it sounds like you had some epiphanies about the importance of congruence and authenticity when it comes to women. Very important concepts, but know that there is more. Higher levels still to go when it comes to your results with women IF you choose to take it that far.

[JustinS]

@brovakhiin Sounds like a typical Orange response.  

[Truth]

Quote

 

It's becoming increasingly clear on this forum that everyone is pouting assumptions about spiral dynamics without having any deep understanding of it. You guys watch a few Actualized.org videos on Spiral Dynamics, get the gist of it and think you're now qualified to speak on the subject.

Understand that "orange=materialist, inauthentic, egoic" and "green=hippy, heart, authenticity" is an incredibly shallow understanding of spiral dynamics. It's the understanding of watching a few videos and getting the gist of it. It's simple and it's easy.

But anyone who has read stuff like Peter Ralston should know that the Self-Matrix and all it's drives are incredibly more complex than that. How do you know hippies are not actually still orange? Or even blue? With a value system that simply has different content, but the same structure? You don't, you're making assumptions based on what you feel, without having studied the matter deeply and applied all the criteria on a deep level.

Nonsense. I put myself at yellow and the alpha/beta distinction absolutely is a sensible one (on a spectrum, of course). Of course it's a matter of definition, and I get the sense your definitions are not very useful. What you go on to describe as "freely expressive, not giving a fuck" are some of the top alpha values, so it's no surprise they are surrounded by women. What the fuck you think being an alpha is, if not the ability and courage to express oneself freely and the self-security and independance to not need to care about others opinions??? If you think it's just some jacked up douchebro your definition is behind the times mate

 

Stage Orange is ultimately more selfish in it's extremes, stage Green is ultimately more Selfless in it's extremes, that's what they're talking about, and that's a pretty clear distinction to make when it comes to creating a Green type of relationship. Why? Cause one might consider masculine energy to be more egoic and selfish, on the other hand feminine is definitely more selfless. There are important masculine and feminine polarization's at play that people don’t add into the equation. Which is what you were trying to point out here right?--> "How do you know hippies are not actually still orange? Or even blue? With a value system that simply has different content, but the same structure?"

And I have to agree 100% with you about what you said with alpha/beta distinction, it is absolutely sensible. They sit on the extremes/polarization's of the masculinity spectrum (alpha/beta) and the extremes/polarization's of the femininity spectrum (submissive/unyielding). To Green they call it bullshit so they can throw out all distinctions in order to get to know everyone on the spiral indiscriminately. But when you do that you don't see your gender role/extreme/masculinity/femininity/polarization's within spiral dynamics and you don't see their polarization's and instead project out creating stereotypes/generalizations that fit within spiral dynamics to justify and dismiss deeper complexities within everyone's genetics/epigenetics. And this leads to interactions turning into a projection game and neither of you are seeing each other's point of view. Which is what looks like is happening here.

Edited July 10, 2018 by Truth

[Nexeternity]

@aurum  Hey!  Yea definately!  But its more like, how good it feels to be authentic and congruent regardless of if it will "get" me girls.  Like even though it sucked not getting laid, I told myself I was not going to lie or manipulate my behavior to "have a better chance" or whatever.  But its really nice to know you can still meet girls once you give that up heh, I was doubting it for a bit!

When I broke the dry spell it was with a girl that I even flat out told, "I havent had sex in a year.  I feel like such a loser when it comes to girls"  lol and we both laughed.  When you meet the right people they wont judge you for being honest and vulnerable with them.

@brovakhiin  lol no way, these hippies are not orange or blue!!!  They dont care about "results" or "achievements" or "efficiency" or "status" or stuff like that.  At least not in any very pronounced way.  And they are not very moralistic, you can tell they try not to judge or moralize you, its really clear in the way they act... so yea cant really be blue.

These people dont care about alpha/beta distinctions.  I dont think they are looking at the world in terms of power and stuff like that.   Really, its hard to believe... I wouldnt have believed it myself a few years ago.

I guess you can call me alpha in the sense that I do care about others opinions and feelings and I dont care that others might think I am beta because of it.    But yea, ofcourse it can suck when people treat you badly or think badly of you and you are too sensitive but hey, its part of the growth process I feel.