Stage green+ pick up, Possible?

[Freakrik]

Leo's rant to the PUA community was flawed IMO. But after watching his latest video about stage orange i understood the biggest reason why leo ranted about the commity. That pickup mostly is stage orange. And that is limiting you from going into stage green etc. And i am asking you. Is it possible to do pickup in stage green, yellow and turquoise? And if so what do you need to change? your mindsets, methods etc?

I myself are at stage orange and i still think i have a few years left in orange before green. So this is not about me. I am just asking 

Edited July 1, 2018 by Freakrik

[Sahil Pandit]

@Freakrik I think that a stage green person feels inauthentic doing pick up, usually because they don't feel comfortable with the idea of seducing a girl or being slick with an intention to sleep with her.

Although, pick up is still an option for green. However, it would be something more authentic, with no agenda to get laid per say.

Although it could be...

Stage green at first doesn't like pick up because it is reacting to orange, but later in stage green it becomes okay because orange becomes more integrated, therefore less resistant to going out and having fun with girls.

 

[Freakrik]

1 hour ago, Sahil Pandit said:

@Freakrik I think that a stage green person feels inauthentic doing pick up, usually because they don't feel comfortable with the idea of seducing a girl or being slick with an intention to sleep with her.

Although, pick up is still an option for green. However, it would be something more authentic, with no agenda to get laid per say.

Although it could be...

Stage green at first doesn't like pick up because it is reacting to orange, but later in stage green it becomes okay because orange becomes more integrated, therefore less resistant to going out and having fun with girls.

 

Ok so not in the beginning of green. But later?

[Sahil Pandit]

@Freakrik It's not that black and white.

There are a lot of factors involved. Also, Spiral Dynamics is just a model, not reality itself. Stage Green has a lot of room for various things and people aren't usually only in just one stage.

In my experience, pick up came to me after i had been in green for a while. (Still am mostly identified with green) 

[Spiral]

You can still talk to girls and go to parties in order have a good time and/or meet new people.  Pickup feels outdated.

[billiesimon]

@Leo Gura I would really appreciate to hear your opinion on this subject.

Do you think that approaching girls in a natural and authentic manner is ok for a full stage green? I don't mean classic PUA style, but just approaching to find a nice girl to date.

[Elisabeth]

5 hours ago, billiesimon said:

Do you think that approaching girls in a natural and authentic manner is ok for a full stage green? I don't mean classic PUA style, but just approaching to find a nice girl to date.

 

I'm not Leo, but I have an opinion

Sure, it's ok to date in stage green. You just become a) much more aware of the reasons why you're doing it in the first place (hint: they change upon close examination), b) much more honest about those reasons with the girls (like, talking about what you're looking for before the first kiss honest), and c) you truly care about the reasons the girl has for dating and if they align, so that you don't hurt either her or yourself (...see: you become conscious how a mismatch in expectation hurts you both). Then you go on and enjoy the moment, or attempt a life-long partnership, or whatever

Edited July 2, 2018 by Elisabeth

[fireworld]

18 hours ago, Freakrik said:

Leo's rant to the PUA community was flawed IMO. But after watching his latest video about stage orange i understood the biggest reason why leo ranted about the commity. That pickup mostly is stage orange. And that is limiting you from going into stage green etc. And i am asking you. Is it possible to do pickup in stage green, yellow and turquoise? And if so what do you need to change? your mindsets, methods etc?

I myself are at stage orange and i still think i have a few years left in orange before green. So this is not about me. I am just asking 

As someone who just got into an argument about this, let me offer my insights as a long time PUA.

Most PUAs that you see online are usually explotative and very self centered. Look at how they are advertising pickup "Get into womens pants with 5 easy steps using this new gimmick" That's why they get a really bad rap, because they deserve it. 

Pickup, just like martial arts can be done from the highest levels down to the lowest levels of humanity. 

It is a very serious super power pickup, especially when you get to the highest levels of it.

If you are using pickup as a way to learn to be more social, more confident and learn to understand women better so that you can be a better man for your woman than you are actually more stage green than orange. (maybe)

Don't mislead, don't lie, don't make her do anything she is going to regret and you will be good. 

Also the most critical insight that you will have as you advance in game, is that 90% of what they teach you actually doesn't work.

Also, most people don't stay in the Game for more than a few months at most. People fall in love and stay there, just like I did and just like most people do, even the PUA teachers.

 

 

Edited July 2, 2018 by fireworld

[Emerald]

At stage Orange, for men, female sexuality is seen as commodity that women are the gatekeepers of. It is seen as a hot 'item' to enhance a man's status through displays of value to one's self and others through female attention. So, attention from women, having money, having success/status, perhaps wearing brands, and being in the in-crowd all kind of meld together as Orange sexuality.

So, sex is quite shallow and transactional at this stage. Men seek to have their power (and thus status) reflected back to them through the confirmation and 'earning' of female attention and approval. Women may also seek to have their desirability (and thus value) reflected back to them through male attention as well. So, at Orange, no one's really even having sex for pleasure. They're having sex for status and a confirmation of their own value. And Oranges will just assume that this is the way sexuality naturally is. They won't realize that it's an adaptation to the Orange society. They see sex as a value exchange first and foremost.

But at Green, there is room for really intimacy and connection. There is also room for focus on pleasure in sex, instead of just status and value confirmation. So, I would say that pick up is definitely Orange, because the pick up community is very geared toward the "sex as transaction" model of human sexuality. But there can still be hook-ups and promiscuity at Green. But is more for fun and mutual exploration, than as a means to add value to one's self in the sexual marketplace. Think "free love."

[billiesimon]

2 hours ago, Elisabeth said:

I'm not Leo, but I have an opinion

Sure, it's ok to date in stage green. You just become a) much more aware of the reasons why you're doing it in the first place (hint: they change upon close examination), b) much more honest about those reasons with the girls (like, talking about what you're looking for before the first kiss honest), and c) you truly care about the reasons the girl has for dating and if they align, so that you don't hurt either her or yourself (...see: you become conscious how a mismatch in expectation hurts you both). Then you go on and enjoy the moment, or attempt a life-long partnership, or whatever

I generally agree with you. Dating evolves in a more honest and warm interaction. Two people discovering each other.

I just don't agree completely with point B.

If you completely reveal your intentions of "finding love" or "finding a girl to connect with" to a girl... she will freak the fuck out and see you as a clingy and shady person. She wants you to be slow and hard to get to start dating you seriously.
I'm NOT the one deciding the rules of the game. It's women. If it was easy to just say "i want to find a really nice connection" every guy would drop the "must hold myself back before love" thing. I mean nice guys, not stereotypical assholes.
I just mean nice guys with experience with women. I tried to be honest but girls don't like it IN THE BEGINNING. They like it after they already chased you.

Again... I'm not the one deciding the rules. It would be wonderful if I just had to state my honest intentions of finding love.  But if a man does it the girl gets scared as fuck. She has to say it first, then as a man you're safe saying it 

[tsuki]

@Freakrik A pointer to construct your own green PUA:

 

[aurum]

@Freakrik

Guys you don’t need to interpret everything through Spiral Dynamics. There can be positive, conscious reasons for doing pickup and negative, unconscious reasons. Just like anything else.

Know what you want, know what your intentions are, and then let it go.

[Elisabeth]

@billiesimon Yeah right, don't take the points as dogma, just my experience/take refined by discussions with some really green people.  Ad b) .. sometimes words don't have to be spoken if the context is clear, it's more about a "joyful yes" type of consent.

4 hours ago, billiesimon said:

If you completely reveal your intentions of "finding love" or "finding a girl to connect with" to a girl... she will freak the fuck out and see you as a clingy and shady person. She wants you to be slow and hard to get to start dating you seriously.
I'm NOT the one deciding the rules of the game. It's women. If it was easy to just say "i want to find a really nice connection" every guy would drop the "must hold myself back before love" thing. I mean nice guys, not stereotypical assholes.
I just mean nice guys with experience with women. I tried to be honest but girls don't like it IN THE BEGINNING. They like it after they already chased you.

Again... I'm not the one deciding the rules. It would be wonderful if I just had to state my honest intentions of finding love.  But if a man does it the girl gets scared as fuck. She has to say it first, then as a man you're safe saying it 

2

I wonder. It's true that attraction does take its due time and until we're ready we're simply not ready. 

Honesty (especially around sex) is not what drives women away. Worst case, honesty may reveal something that's an actual dealbreaker ... which is not a loss because dealbreakers cause problems later on.  In that sense revealing dealbreakers early is a win. 

To understand where I'm coming from: I've been involved with polyamorous and bdsm communities for some time now. In both of these talking early on becomes a best practice, almost a necessity, because people's wishes and expectations are so varied and an unwanted interaction can cause so much more harm. Maybe the majority culture, even among green, is shifted … yet I don't think there's any harm in learning from these subcultures (well, from their most conscious parts anyway), because they are the ones who have thought about and debated dating, consent, power-dynamics and ethical standards over and over again. The key to consent is that both people own their wishes, intentions and boundaries and speak up if things take an uncomfortable turn (with honesty as an absolute pre-requisite). 

So I'm not exactly disputing what you said but I still think you have some preconceptions there which need to be examined. What's the "must hold myself back before love"  thing actually supposed to mean? What's the "love" word in here, what are you holding yourself back from? I genuinely don't understand. 

I feel like there's maybe one more bit of info I can give you - on the so called "nice guy" thing. Look, I've dated nice guys (two of them for a few years each), and I left them in the end. The problem with the typical nice guy is, he's essentially blue, not green. (I don't know if that's your case relationship-wise or not.) He will lack self-respect, personal boundaries, and ambition (or even purpose) - and yeah, these qualities are the good side of orange and they are attractive (to our orange parts at least). He will not own his emotions, especially the bad ones. He will also try to squeeze the woman into his one right idea of a relationship, because they haven't fully grasped the idea of individuality and defining your style to suit you, which in effect, isn't that nice at all. Orange IS a step up from blue. 

Please let me know if this is useful  

@tsuki I liked that video

Edited July 2, 2018 by Elisabeth

[Elisabeth]

2 minutes ago, aurum said:

Guys you don’t need to interpret everything through Spiral Dynamics. 

Bear with us, you're right of course, but we're trying the tool on Ok, at least I am

[Your place at Heart]

On 7/1/2018 at 6:45 PM, Freakrik said:

Leo's rant to the PUA community was flawed IMO. But after watching his latest video about stage orange i understood the biggest reason why leo ranted about the commity. That pickup mostly is stage orange. And that is limiting you from going into stage green etc. And i am asking you. Is it possible to do pickup in stage green, yellow and turquoise? And if so what do you need to change? your mindsets, methods etc?

I myself are at stage orange and i still think i have a few years left in orange before green. So this is not about me. I am just asking 

There is nothing wrong with using tactics and luring girls. Your morals are nagging you yet they are just relative. Mating with women is just so hard. It requires perseverance and intellect and risk taking. In my place of origin in middle east, dating is almost non-existant and it's life threatening to talk to a girl, let alone trying to sleep with one. You only can have sex through marriage. Most people of middle east are absolutely moralistic and yet they forget themselves and are in state of flow when sex happens, they even paths to mating that are impossible or unimaginable. Anal sex is just so prevalent.  So don't worry about attracting women, worry about your own limiting beliefs and conditioned morals from killing you.