No one can explain me this? againg

[Victor Mgazi]

The mind is not the product of the brain but rather the brain is the product of the mind. Understand this and the rest should follow. 

[Nahm]

@Dino D “Empty your cup”, or say “Now is the beginning of self inquiry”.

39 minutes ago, Dino D said:

this is againgst some of my beliefs

Start with all of those.  When did I learn / adopt my beliefs? Did I read them? Was I raised being told them? The difference between belief & Truth, is that one of them is the Truth. 

14 minutes ago, Bernard said:

agape, or unconditional love

I hope this doesn’t appear as argumentative.....that ^  is the actuality, the real eternal you. So maybe instead of remembering a state, the actuality is already the “floor” upon which sits thinking, surviving, desire, concern, (acceptable human selfishness) etc. Not egotistical personal selfishness, but rather who could blame you cause you have to survive in this world and therein people develop a relative perspective, seeing all things with meaning & value relative to their person kind-of-selfishness. Self inquiry like “Why in the fuck do I keep doing A, B & C?!” reveals, “transcends”, liberates. There’s going to be some scenes of fear, but upon going straight through it, the illusion is revealed / the Self is realized. And then it is VERY funny.

Awareness alone is curative. Being aware of my whys is enough. The variable is how many times does life (which is actually me) have to kick me in the balls until I self inquire? For me, it was around two thousand lol. 

@Mikael89 nice!

[Nahm]

6 hours ago, Dino D said:

I still dont get it that there is no reality-matter.

20 people in  one room, there is no room, there are just 20 perceptions or 20 rooms...

you dont exist when i dont see you

my hand does not exist when i dont look at it, or when i sleep

when i touch a wall i dont touch it, its not external, its not happening somewhere, its all in me...

why am i not aware of your body and mind...

and so on...

if a camera thakes a photo of the room, did the camere producet that photo of its own or did it just reproduced/rendered what was inside of that room (so a photo of the external word-as it is coomon thinking about this)...

 

i know when i percive a sight, lets say watch a three, i dont counciously experience a three, the light comes trought my eyes, it gets rendered and reproduced in my brain and then my counciousnes finaly sees what my brain is rendering/reproducing to it... and its the same with everything, whatever I ever experienced was just me (the brain body) because Im not able to make any conection to reality without it... BUT THIS DOES NOT prove that there is no outside, no reality, no matter, that we are all on, and that nothing exist... this is just biology, body mehanics, the fact that the human organism works this way, and all of our perceptions and senzations does not disprove the otuside... No, the camera cant reproduce a photo of room 2, while shoting/capturing room 1 , i cant see you (a guy from lets say new york), while looking at my wall in croatia... as you sleep, i still see your hand and it exists, there is flash, blood, nerves and your organism is working no matter if you sleep or are unconciousnes... these are some examples on the more or less same thing... when ,,nondualist" explain this stuff and if i should belive or understand it and say, yea I get it.. then i would really really be deluded as fucX, I mean, no seanse at all, no logic, no evidence and so many arguments and proves againgst the theory: The moon, time space, the outside and so on, does not exist if i dont see it, and it all exist it me (like in me the body mind), or that all of those thing dont exist because my brain renders them... yea, there is also no brain... there is not one logical argument, explonation to this stuff, i I just dont see how some of you guys belive or experience this in that way...

When “ I “ or “me” is used & referred to here ^ , it is a thought of an I or me, it is not the actual Self. Maybe read this (below) and then read what you wrote (above), keeping the a priori “ I “ in mind...

The a priori “ I “ ...

 

a pri·o·ri 

Relating to or denoting reasoning or knowledge that proceeds from theoretical deduction rather than from observation or experience.

As in, there is an “ I “ which the brain has constructed (an ego), it’s a group of memories & thoughts, it is theoretical, not actual. 

Thought is a circle jerk three cups and a peanut game, but there is no peanut. There is no end to the brain’s thinking, when the a priori “ I “ is allowed. The root of every thought must be identified / made aware of. 

[Bernard]

@Nahm Nah, I'm not taking it as argumentative. I'm here to learn also and this love being self eludes me in all honesty.

I realized that I may not know how to love. (Had a screwed up childhood). This very well may be what I personally need lol

If what you say its true, it's interesting that I remember the other stuff but forgot about that love feeling.

[Nahm]

@Bernard Me freakin too brother. It’s the past though. I remember a very specific trip in which the love was pressing upon the identity, and it was getting a little rough if you know what I mean, downright gripping, and then the insight / release hit me. I was thinking....if I’m everything, like the Buddha says, then why in the F would I have had that happen to me?!? And it hit me.....That shit that happened to “me”, and the two weeks spent in the hospital recovering from it....that was when I identified the event / incident, with what I am. I’d been identifying with it ever since, for many years. Holding that incident by identifying with it had shaped my attitude unbeknownst to me.  I realized what Letting Go is in that moment. I realized I am stronger for it having happened. Letting Go is an art worthwhile of mastery. It is liberation. 

25 minutes ago, Bernard said:

it's interesting that I remember the other stuff but forgot about that love feeling.

That is a brilliant insight right there. This entire human experience hinges on forgetting. This is evidence You are remembering now. ❤️

[krazzer]

6 hours ago, Dino D said:

I still dont get it that there is no reality-matter.

20 people in  one room, there is no room, there are just 20 perceptions or 20 rooms...

you dont exist when i dont see you

my hand does not exist when i dont look at it, or when i sleep

when i touch a wall i dont touch it, its not external, its not happening somewhere, its all in me...

why am i not aware of your body and mind...

and so on...

if a camera thakes a photo of the room, did the camere producet that photo of its own or did it just reproduced/rendered what was inside of that room (so a photo of the external word-as it is coomon thinking about this)...

And yet you know when all of this happens in a dream, it's just a dream. Except that you don't know when you're in the dream. Just like you don't know that you are dreaming right now.

[metwinn]

6 hours ago, Dino D said:

Youre not what you belive, youre what you are... we can find 1000 proves of what youre are, but you cant give me one prove that youre an owel, but I should belive you

Prove to me that I am a human being. Bet you can't

[Guest Quanty]

Awaken my friend. You will stop altogether to make philosophies about what is real or not. 

[Bernard]

@Dino D Not that this is relevant to your topic but I was born in Croatia. Figured I'd share that since you mentioned it.

[Bernard]

9 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Bernard Me freakin too brother. It’s the past though. I remember a very specific trip in which the love was pressing upon the identity, and it was getting a little rough if you know what I mean, downright gripping, and then the insight / release hit me. I was thinking....if I’m everything, like the Buddha says, then why in the F would I have had that happen to me?!? And it hit me.....That shit that happened to “me”, and the two weeks spent in the hospital recovering from it....that was when I identified the event / incident, with what I am. I’d been identifying with it ever since, for many years. Holding that incident by identifying with it had shaped my attitude unbeknownst to me.  I realized what Letting Go is in that moment. I realized I am stronger for it having happened. Letting Go is an art worthwhile of mastery. It is liberation. 

That is a brilliant insight right there. This entire human experience hinges on forgetting. This is evidence You are remembering now. ❤️

@Nahm I'm still trying to fully grasp "letting go" as well. I've noticed I've got better at it over the years. Guess in "time" it will happen where I fully grasp it.  For now I'm just going with the flow. Guess its all we can do.

[Dino D]

16 hours ago, krazzer said:

And yet you know when all of this happens in a dream, it's just a dream. Except that you don't know when you're in the dream. Just like you don't know that you are dreaming right now.

when I dream i very very often realize that this is a dream, also I'm very often half avake when I dream, whenever I'm in a dream and if I start for 1second to observe the dream or to question it I always get it... dreaming happends in the brain, and you cant do any scientific test in a dream... so that analogy in fact isn compareble to reality for 1000 of reasons... I have heard it before of course

[Dino D]

11 hours ago, metwinn said:

Prove to me that I am a human being. Bet you can't

i can prove it... but maybe i cant prove it to you (your spiritual ego), i can find many evidences... however i cant find one evidence that youre an owel, a dog, a wall-i can only blindly belive things like that without any any evindence... Evan if evenidence at the ulitmate level is illusion or non existent or whatever it still ,,something" and some seanse and logic can be found, but claim that youre an owel, or a wall are totaly made up and with nothing to prove it or make it ,,real" in any real or illlusionar way...

[Dogsbestfriend]

I wouldn't get too caught up in it if I were you. It's one of those perspectives that sometimes happens best when you aren't trying to too hard to understand it. Also 'so what'? So what if we are all one on some level. To what extent does it matter. It's a nice 'thought', but then what. Then we pick up all our baggage and continue through life as always. 

[Dino D]

8 hours ago, Quanty said:

Awaken my friend. You will stop altogether to make philosophies about what is real or not. 

I cant, and if I could, would I really stop? I also dont see people ,,making it" and waking up, ,,like 4 real" .

[metwinn]

7 hours ago, Dino D said:

i can prove it... but maybe i cant prove it to you (your spiritual ego), i can find many evidences... however i cant find one evidence that youre an owel, a dog, a wall-i can only blindly belive things like that without any any evindence... Evan if evenidence at the ulitmate level is illusion or non existent or whatever it still ,,something" and some seanse and logic can be found, but claim that youre an owel, or a wall are totaly made up and with nothing to prove it or make it ,,real" in any real or illlusionar way...

How can you prove it exactly? All you can prove is that there is a mind and body here. But if I claim not to be the mind or the body how can you prove me wrong? How is believing that you are a human any more valid then believing your an owl. Your right by saying that I can't prove it. But I am also right in saying that you can't prove me wrong either. I would like you to tell me if you can, the difference between "myself" and an owl.

[Dino D]

1 hour ago, metwinn said:

How can you prove it exactly? All you can prove is that there is a mind and body here. But if I claim not to be the mind or the body how can you prove me wrong? How is believing that you are a human any more valid then believing your an owl. Your right by saying that I can't prove it. But I am also right in saying that you can't prove me wrong either. I would like you to tell me if you can, the difference between "myself" and an owl.

I can put you next to an owl. Comapare you. I can put a fether of an owl not of you, analyze your dna, i can talk to you, you can speak, use the net, meditate, you can try to have sex with an owl, to reproduce with it... you can try to fly... i could trow you and a owl from a building and you would see who is a owl who a human, i can do many many tests (blood, brain, tishue and whatever) and show differences an proves... but some poeple will jist continue to say that the earth is flat, that america is the best, and that muhamed is the savior because it just is no matter what i say or prove... some will also say that they are owls, and some of those will go in a hospital for being crazy (i know youre using just analogy and not littelary beliving that youre a bird, youre now into being one with everything and being pure counciousness but thats the biggest delusion here, no prove at all, i know prove, evidence and science has its limits, but claims like that are just pure imaginations and guessins, whatever)... youre me, i'm a chair, this phone is a monkey, everything is purple, 5+5people=water.

[metwinn]

1 hour ago, Dino D said:

I can put you next to an owl. Comapare you. I can put a fether of an owl not of you, analyze your dna, i can talk to you, you can speak, use the net, meditate, you can try to have sex with an owl, to reproduce with it... you can try to fly... i could trow you and a owl from a building and you would see who is a owl who a human, i can do many many tests (blood, brain, tishue and whatever) and show differences an proves... but some poeple will jist continue to say that the earth is flat, that america is the best, and that muhamed is the savior because it just is no matter what i say or prove... some will also say that they are owls, and some of those will go in a hospital for being crazy (i know youre using just analogy and not littelary beliving that youre a bird, youre now into being one with everything and being pure counciousness but thats the biggest delusion here, no prove at all, i know prove, evidence and science has its limits, but claims like that are just pure imaginations and guessins, whatever)... youre me, i'm a chair, this phone is a monkey, everything is purple, 5+5people=water.

You can put a body next to an owl, but I said I claim not to be that body. You can talk to the body speak to the body and mind etc but as I said im not this body or mind and you said you could prove me wrong. I claim to be the consciousness that gives rise to the body/ mind. You cant test consciousness as the very tests that you are doing are occuring within consciousness. I'm not using analogies here. I literally exist as all birds, and all owls and all bodies.

Edited July 2, 2018 by metwinn

[Dino D]

2 minutes ago, metwinn said:

You can put a body next to an owl, but I said I claim not to be that body. You can talk to the body speak to the body and mind etc but as I said im not this body or mind and you said you could prove me wrong. I claim to be the consciousness that gives rise to the body/ mind. You cant test consciousness as the very tests that you are doing are occuring within consciousness. I'm not using analogies here. I literally exist as all birds, and all owls. 

This could be true, but you dont know that, youre just guesing... youre newer experienced this... you triped or meditaded, experienced some states and then you formes domgatic beliefs that youre me, or a bird, without ever experiencing this or litelary being in the body of me or a bird...

[metwinn]

1 hour ago, Dino D said:

I can put you next to an owl. Comapare you. I can put a fether of an owl not of you, analyze your dna, i can talk to you, you can speak, use the net, meditate, you can try to have sex with an owl, to reproduce with it... you can try to fly... i could trow you and a owl from a building and you would see who is a owl who a human, i can do many many tests (blood, brain, tishue and whatever) and show differences an proves... but some poeple will jist continue to say that the earth is flat, that america is the best, and that muhamed is the savior because it just is no matter what i say or prove... some will also say that they are owls, and some of those will go in a hospital for being crazy (i know youre using just analogy and not littelary beliving that youre a bird, youre now into being one with everything and being pure counciousness but thats the biggest delusion here, no prove at all, i know prove, evidence and science has its limits, but claims like that are just pure imaginations and guessins, whatever)... youre me, i'm a chair, this phone is a monkey, everything is purple, 5+5people=water.

What you haven't yet told me is why there is more validity in believing yourself to be this one particular human than believing that you are everything. How is that not a delusion? An illusion of control and seperatness created by the mind.

[metwinn]

3 minutes ago, Dino D said:

This could be true, but you dont know that, youre just guesing... youre newer experienced this... you triped or meditaded, experienced some states and then you formes domgatic beliefs that youre me, or a bird, without ever experiencing this or litelary being in the body of me or a bird...

There is no guess work being doing here. I have thought through this very logically believe it or not through the past few years extensively and this is what ive concluded. You are also just guessing that your the body and mind, this is also just a belief. I believe everything im telling you literally. The difference is that I have looked openely for what I know believe if you want to call it that. You have just excepted what the mind is telling you as truth.

Edited July 2, 2018 by metwinn