What is your opinion on this vid to all PUAs out there

[Freakrik]

what are your opinions?

[Bill Eichman]

Todd Valentine. One of the new school.

He's usually pretty good. He has been in conflict with RSD, with whom he worked for a while, then decided to move off on his own. He wanted to be able to use some of his content and materials (and maybe the RSD mark) with his new business, RSD sued him.

I think that he is too general in this video, unwilling to give specific examples, name specific teachers and teachings. Obviously, he is talking about Tyler. But he fails to be clear.

Here's the thing. You need a specialized sub technique to get girls of the type that are going to make you happy as a male seeking actualization. The worst thing that could happen to average actualizing guy is to fall in love with a normal high-status girl, and her with you.

So, most of the standard pickup and male-female dynamics teachings need a bit of modification for our kind. 

You know, that could make for a fine small business. Woke pickup.

 

[aurum]

@Freakrik

I'll preface this by saying that I'm friends with Todd. And there's definitely some truth to this.

I don't learn from 99% of pickup gurus. In beginning I learned from everyone, but after being in the community for over five years, I've sorted out who I think is worth learning from and giving real advice.

Most pickup gurus are giving platitudes. These platitudes might be accurate to extent, but mostly they've been stripped of any real value in order to not be controversial.

He's also right that for a truly advanced guy, you're going to have to go beyond 95% of what is taught in pickup. Most pickup advice is geared towards beginners because they are the largest category.

I know this because this has happened to me many times. I've had to completely destroy old habits that were working and rebuild new ones in order to get to the next level. It's the old adage, "what got you here won't get you there".

In essence, I think what Todd is advocating for is to bring balance back to your game. Don't be this mindset champ that thinks because you read Models and believe in the power of vulnerability that you're going to automatically be good at game. That is so delusional.

You need strategy. You need skills. You need experience. And most importantly, you need to actually self-reflect and analyze your behavior, not just keep doing the same thing over and over again.

[Shroomdoctor]

1 hour ago, aurum said:

@Freakrik

In essence, I think what Todd is advocating for is to bring balance back to your game. Don't be this mindset champ that thinks because you read Models and believe in the power of vulnerability that you're going to automatically be good at game. That is so delusional.

Can you elaborate on that? Isn't mindset a really big part? Yes, of course you then only learn ti implement through experience. But isn't it better to go into this with the right mindset, REALLY connection with maybe only a few girls authentically rather than fucking a hundred "nameless plates". ?   

[Freakrik]

2 hours ago, aurum said:

@Freakrik

I'll preface this by saying that I'm friends with Todd. And there's definitely some truth to this.

I don't learn from 99% of pickup gurus. In beginning I learned from everyone, but after being in the community for over five years, I've sorted out who I think is worth learning from and giving real advice.

Most pickup gurus are giving platitudes. These platitudes might be accurate to extent, but mostly they've been stripped of any real value in order to not be controversial.

He's also right that for a truly advanced guy, you're going to have to go beyond 95% of what is taught in pickup. Most pickup advice is geared towards beginners because they are the largest category.

I know this because this has happened to me many times. I've had to completely destroy old habits that were working and rebuild new ones in order to get to the next level. It's the old adage, "what got you here won't get you there".

In essence, I think what Todd is advocating for is to bring balance back to your game. Don't be this mindset champ that thinks because you read Models and believe in the power of vulnerability that you're going to automatically be good at game. That is so delusional.

You need strategy. You need skills. You need experience. And most importantly, you need to actually self-reflect and analyze your behavior, not just keep doing the same thing over and over again.

https://www.toddvdating.com/why-you-plateau/ he talks about it more here. If we take Leos rant about pickup and we hear him talk about What pickup guys today say "mystery method was clear manipulation of women What i am doing is the authentic style" Leo dismissed MM and Speed seduction (he did not say just Speed seduction but NLP and hypnosis in general) and that i think is the Things Todd meant we need to go back to. (He talked about both in art of game). "Things that were not woo woo and feel Good, but the Things that actually worked" What are the teachers you learn from?

[aurum]

2 hours ago, Shroomdoctor said:

Isn't mindset a really big part?

Of course it is. Todd does teach a lot of excellent mindsets, it's just not what he is focusing on in this video.

2 hours ago, Shroomdoctor said:

But isn't it better to go into this with the right mindset, REALLY connection with maybe only a few girls authentically rather than fucking a hundred "nameless plates". ?   

Don't knock the "fucking a hundred nameless plates" thing until you've done it. If you weren't good with girls growing up, that will be one of the hardest things you'll ever do. I have respect for any guy who has made that happen.

Anyway, we're not talking about what is the "optimal" lifestyle. That's a whole different debate.

What we're talking about is how do you take a guy who wasn't previously getting results with women and get him succeeding?

When you say "Be authentic and connect with a woman", what that basically translates to for a new guy is KEEP DOING WHAT YOU'RE DOING. Keep doing what hasn't been getting you results in the past.

That's completely backwards, a new guy has to have a mindset that he is willing to change everything about himself. Because what he thinks is "him" isn't really him anyway, it's this socially conditioned ego that he has identified with.

I made a video about this called "I don't want you to be authentic". Self-actualization is about growth and evolution, not staying the same.

So yes, a new guy needs to go out and learn some skills. Learn about false time constraints, investment loops, qualification, seeding the pull, objection handling, hard stops, walk-withs, etc etc etc.

Once you get that stuff down, it becomes like your utility belt. You don't HAVE to use any of it, but you got it if the situation calls for it.

[aurum]

1 hour ago, Freakrik said:

Leo dismissed MM and Speed seduction (he did not say just Speed seduction but NLP and hypnosis in general) and that i think is the Things Todd meant we need to go back to.

Lol no, Todd is definitely not suggesting going back to SS, NLP or hypnosis. That stuff is massively cringeworthy and not effective.

MM definitely has some good pieces but it's flawed as well.

What he is advocating is treating pickup like a skill. Don't just approach it blindly, telling yourself you're being "authentic" and "having fun". Actually be strategic and smart about what you're doing.

1 hour ago, Freakrik said:

What are the teachers you learn from?

At the moment, really only RSD Luke. Another friend of mine and the only one teaching the kind of game I'm interested in doing.

I also learn indirectly from a lot of "naturals". That tends to be more of a do what I do, not as I say kind of relationship. Because many of them don't even really understand how they're getting the results they're getting.

[Freakrik]

1 hour ago, aurum said:

Lol no, Todd is definitely not suggesting going back to SS, NLP or hypnosis. That stuff is massively cringeworthy and not effective.

MM definitely has some good pieces but it's flawed as well.

What he is advocating is treating pickup like a skill. Don't just approach it blindly, telling yourself you're being "authentic" and "having fun". Actually be strategic and smart about what you're doing.

At the moment, really only RSD Luke. Another friend of mine and the only one teaching the kind of game I'm interested in doing.

I also learn indirectly from a lot of "naturals". That tends to be more of a do what I do, not as I say kind of relationship. Because many of them don't even really understand how they're getting the results they're getting.

Are you Sure about SS? Todd said it made him worse but not because it did not work but it would turn the girl on so much She felt wierd about it. Can you point to the flaws in MM? 

 

in this video denton talks about how Rsd Luke has awful cold approch skills. What do you think of that. He had also said that Luke said "you Don't have to be Good, you just need to have a following" in an another video. 

 

Edited July 1, 2018 by Freakrik

[Bill Eichman]

Continuing with the idea that it takes a slightly different approach to pickup girls with the qualities and traits likely to be most compatible with the average self-actualizing guy, I've decided that this guy, Brian Begin with the Fearless man channel. comes closest to a complete method and training system to be successful with that kind of female.

He throws in a fair amount of material straight out of basic yogic training. Body awareness, groundedness, feeling sexual tension in the body and embracing and using it, masculine energy and the masculine frame and how women respond to that frame, etc.

There are not a lot of "canned methods" in his material. Which arguably is good, because a female with the traits we want is going to be very aware of ordinary male games, will detect them very fast, and not be very vulnerable to them (altho she might decide to play along. Women often do.).

The polarity and tension stuff works like gangbusters on women you already have in your life, girlfriends, wives, etc.   

[aurum]

7 hours ago, Freakrik said:

Todd said it made him worse but not because it did not work but it would turn the girl on so much She felt wierd about it.

Then it doesn't work lol. Good reactions are not the goal.

7 hours ago, Freakrik said:

Can you point to the flaws in MM? 

Things like the 7 hour rule, the 3 second rule, the frame of needing to demonstrate value, the emphasis on isolation, etc. It would take me several pages of writing to explain it all.

7 hours ago, Freakrik said:

n this video denton talks about how Rsd Luke has awful cold approch skills. What do you think of that. He had also said that Luke said "you Don't have to be Good, you just need to have a following" in an another video. 

Luke definitely does not have awful cold approach skills. I obviously don't know what Denton say that made him think that but I'm pretty shocked he would say that.

But even if that was true, it wouldn't matter to me because I don't learn from Luke in order to get better at cold approach. I already know how to do that. 

I go to Luke because I'm incorporating a lot more social circle game into my life. That's his area of expertise and so I just focus on that piece of the puzzle.

[Freakrik]

1 hour ago, aurum said:

Then it doesn't work lol. Good reactions are not the goal.

Things like the 7 hour rule, the 3 second rule, the frame of needing to demonstrate value, the emphasis on isolation, etc. It would take me several pages of writing to explain it all.

Luke definitely does not have awful cold approach skills. I obviously don't know what Denton say that made him think that but I'm pretty shocked he would say that.

But even if that was true, it wouldn't matter to me because I don't learn from Luke in order to get better at cold approach. I already know how to do that. 

I go to Luke because I'm incorporating a lot more social circle game into my life. That's his area of expertise and so I just focus on that piece of the puzzle.

I think what he meant was that pure SS can easily backfire. So you other types of game to back it up. Just like the DD model has it's limitations. Btw Do you think SS is evil? (Leo seams to think that) or just not a great solotion in your opinion? 

Edited July 1, 2018 by Freakrik

[SFRL]

I look at it this way:

Ever heard of the 80/20 rule?

In business sales it means that 20% of the the sales team will be responsible for making 80% of the sales. 

In pick-up it's truth as well. 20% of the techniques out there will give you 80% of your results. So if you got those basic techniques down you have unlocked the game on a 8/10 level already. 

Those techniques as far as I am concerned are:

Cocky-comedy

Frame control 

Abundance mindset/willingness to walk away

Logistics 

You got those handled you should be pretty much set. 

That's broadly the skillset you need to focus on starting out. 

Edited July 2, 2018 by SFRL