Examples of SJW/Feminist types acting spiral green.

[Clayman]

Hm, I found it very difficult finding such examples. Most of what I found was some spoken/written green cake topping and some green cherries, on-top of acted out typical blue absolutist cake body....

After some years of thinking and working on myself what I have  found is that the way you are is not "what you think or speak", but the way you are is the way you "act". Witch is what the Spiral Dynamics model suggests itself per se. I have few green friends, they seem very different from this types, and they act differently... What I think is the case  its not orange resisting green in this specific case, but that the feminine blue is resisting orange. Thus resulting in the "devouring-mother" jungian archetype, and acting out the Buddhist ‘Idiot compassion' mindset.

And please don't go with the "you are in the classic trap of confusing green with blue, because you yourself are not green yet"  card.  I am not trying to judge or resist anything. I just want to understand it deeply and see your line of thinking on this.
 

Edited June 30, 2018 by Clayman

[intrastellar]

I agree with you here. It's a similar case as with the militant vegans where I left this reply: 

Quote

Militant veganism, as well as many "social justice warrior" / radical feminist-types seem actually blue to me. They are absolutistic in their believes, not relativistic.

They just have another "higher truth"  than our typical blue conservatives. Their higher truth doesn't come out of the bible or from tradition or God, but from the "real green" people/values. They may sense that there is some truth to those green values (just like the religious blue sense that there is some truth to spirituality /god / the teachings in the bible), but they don't fully understand it and it's ramifications.

You could say militant vegans are blue disguising as green, as are "social justice warriors" or radical feminists. The values they fight for are green, but they act in a blue way.

It's also a similar case to blue religious people talking about god and love and compassion and altruism (the class christian values) but then go to war, go on crusades, burn witches... You don't "judge" them by their words here and say: "They talk about god - they must be turquoise", but by their actions, by the way they really see the world, which is more black and white, good vs. evil...

I know this from my own past that I would preach the green values, because they sound good and seem right. And you want to be on the "right side of history" (which may be just another form of promised salvation in the afterlife). But what does that coun't if you don't practice what you preach. 

 

Here's a video where Ken Wilber talks about the radical left (and the radical right). He makes this point at around 21:20 (here he's actually quoting his interviewer but agreeing with him)

I would even say it's not about how you act but more like what the "place is, you're acting from". Is it an absolutistic mindset, where there's your truth and nothing but your truth, or if it's an relativistic place, where there are many possible truths but none of them is absolutely true. I mean you can act enlightened and do everything an enlightened person does, imitating him, but that doesn't make you enlightened yourself.

 

Edited June 30, 2018 by intrastellar

[Leo Gura]

You guys still aren't getting Green.

Let go of your preconceptions.

[Revolutionary Think]

Ya you guys it's time for some post-conceptions. I'm going to wait for the video and then talk about green

[Emerald]

Blue and Green both are pretty dogmatic. Letting go of dogma comes with Yellow. It's just that Blue's dogma is based around traditions, folkways, and social norms. Green's dogma is based around equality, fairness, and justice. 

[Clayman]

I am kind of waiting for the new video too. But lumping every bipedal that utters the words: compassion, caring, love,vegan,chia, energy, humans into green seems quite short-sided. I am quite agreeing with @intrastellar on this one. Also I ll have to go trough spiral dynamics book more times.

When I was teen, I was into a lot of new agey stuff. I would say stuff like: everything is energy, we should all care about each-other, why are there people in the third world suffering, we all are one, plant, trees, all of it, wars are meaningless, why shouldn't we all try to help each-other and build a better society, and all the stuff that gets in that package.  ... By that merit i should have been green loooong at that point, evolve, and by now probably become a "floating goo ectoplasm and 4D morphing fractals"... but no I was not green. I was heavy blue. I had to completely let go of all that stuff and go into totally different direction only to find it again, transformed. So I wouldn't say the issue is "letting go of preconceptions".

@Emerald Hm, its so weird,....its hard for me to see how a stage witch unlocks the range of infinite perspectives and is based on the keyword "relativistic" have such sameness ... in its perspective gamut. 

Edited June 30, 2018 by Clayman

[Emerald]

7 minutes ago, Clayman said:

@Emerald Hm, its so weird,....its hard for me to see how a stage witch unlocks the range of infinite perspectives and is based on the keyword "relativistic" have such sameness ... in its perspective gamut. 

Are you talking about Yellow as the stage that is relativistic and includes infinite perspectives?

If so, it is basically a realization that different perspectives have their own relative truths. For example, an ant may say, "The flower is huge!" or an elephant may say, "The flower is tiny!" Both of these statements are true from a particular perspective, but false from another. A person who is in yellow, will be able to recognize that these perspectives are valid and will be able to make room for that paradox of conflicting perspectives.

But ultimately, the idea of "big and small" is a false dichotomy not based in reality. It is just a relative truth of which its understanding of that truth has a practical function for a person's (or animal's) unique perspective. This understanding is also key to Yellow-ness. 

[Clayman]

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

Are you talking about Yellow as the stage that is relativistic and includes infinite perspectives?

If so, it is basically a realization that different perspectives have their own relative truths. For example, an ant may say, "The flower is huge!" or an elephant may say, "The flower is tiny!" Both of these statements are true from a particular perspective, but false from another. A person who is in yellow, will be able to recognize that these perspectives are valid and will be able to make room for that paradox of conflicting perspectives.

But ultimately, the idea of "big and small" is a false dichotomy not based in reality. It is just a relative truth of which its understanding of that truth has a practical function for a person's (or animal's) unique perspective. This understanding is also key to Yellow-ness. 

Green is also called relativistic, yellow is also called systemic. Green can shift perspectives, but one at a time, Yellow can see multiple at one time, yellow sees the matrix. That way I can see how green can seem dogmatic from third persons view. It is infringed in the current perspective, only to see another one later and infringe into that one. What orange would say: "hippies with cognitive dissonance, contradicting themselves all the time, not making logical argument shifts. "

Even in part what triggers emergence into orange is the realization that all of this "god,state,nation,ect" thing is happening in my head, I am making all this stuff up. Must start re-evaluating all of this, the mind is flawed, it tricked me, must learn more about it, see how to use it properly. And than orange pops into personal development. I am sure a lot of orange people would resonate with this. That's how we get for the first time the "We can agree to disagree" and "I have my opinion and I respect yours". And some time after that orange gets "oh my god there are so many people, each could see the world totally differently from their own eyes, how do I know mine is right , I cant quantify "right" because my world is governed by things totally different from anothers person"  and thus the orange goes green and everything becomes relativistic.

Also, the ability to see the world from another persons eyes is probably what awakes the true compassion of green. Witch didn't exist before.

Still does not remind me of the "What I see is right and more important, if you have different opinion than mine than you are nazi, misogynist and the list goes on with the name calling" something very common in SJWs . How does one go from "we can agree to disagree"  to "burn heretics" . Probably one doesn't. 

Btw is this @Emerald from the "diamond net", haven't logged in here for quite some time

Edited June 30, 2018 by Clayman

[Leo Gura]

@Clayman Green is not yet conscious enough to be tolerant of intolerance.

That comes only later.

Judgment of "evil" is a very sticky thing. Very hard for the mind to let go. You're only gonna be able to let it go after some enlightenment experiences. And Green is not there yet.

The reason you're confused about this is because you're expecting Green to perfectly embody its ideals of empathy, love, and peace. Which of course Green cannot do because that would require total enlightenment -- beyond anything you can imagine.

If you're expecting Green to be Jesus, you'll be disappointed.

And even Jesus would be a SJW in your book.

Stop listening to the likes of Jordan Peterson and stop using the label "SJW". It's holding you back.

Imagine if I referred to all Blue staged people as "Nazis", all Red staged people as "Rapists", and all Orange staged people as "greedy pigs". And then I kept wondering, How come I don't understand them?

To understand a thing requires that you first stop judging it.

[Emerald]

3 minutes ago, Clayman said:

Green is also called relativistic, yellow is also called systemic. Green can shift perspectives, but one at a time, Yellow can see multiple at one time, yellow sees the matrix. That way I can see how green can seem dogmatic from third persons view. It is infringed in the current perspective, only to see another one later and infringe into that one. What orange would say: "hippies with cognitive dissonance, contradicting themselves all the time, not making logical argument shifts. "

Even in part what triggers emergence into orange is the realization that all of this "god,state,nation,ect" thing is happening in my head, I am making all this stuff up. Must start re-evaluating all of this, I am sure a lot of orange people would resonate with this. That's how we get for the first time the "We can agree to disagree" and "I have my opinion and I respect yours". And some time after that orange gets "oh my god there are so many people, each could see the world totally differently from their own eyes, how do I know mine is right , I cant quantify "right" because my world is governed by things totally differentl from another persons"  and thus the orange goes green and everything becomes relativistic.

Still does not remind me of the "What I see is right and more important, if you have different opinion than mine than you are nazi, misogynist and the list goes on with the name calling" something very common in SJWs .

Well, Greens are very tolerant and aware of the fact that there are many different perspectives, coming from many different backgrounds and cultures. So, they don't believe that their cultural perspective is better than anyone else. So, they see perspectives as basically equal. So, they aren't going to judge someone for thinking or doing something different than themselves or the social norms within their culture... UNLESS. And this is a huge UNLESS. Greens are tolerant of all perspectives, UNLESS they perceive a perspective as intolerant to other people and their perspectives. Then, they will be very judgmental of any perspective that is encourages, enables, or is complacent to discrimination, bigotry, oppression, and unfairness in general.

Also, Greens have started to take baby steps with systemic thinking and tend to be more aware than oranges as to the structures that create an unfair society. They also tend to be more concerned with justice, equality, and fairness. So, if they see a perspective that creates an unfair society, the most outspoken Greens will lambast that perspective and anyone who holds it.

But those that hold those perspectives rarely know that their perspective is perpetuating so many problems. So, those Blues and Oranges will just be like, "Wow... Over-reaction much?" Then the Greens will just assume that they recognized the problems with their perspective and just don't care... or are actually trying to create problems. So, they'll demonize people with those perspectives even more. 

[Emerald]

@Clayman

Yes. This is she.

[Cudin]

People that get triggered by SJWs are definately not green. Militant vegans actually do have more empathy than most people, even though they seem to be just a pain in the ass for some. It's your task to put yourself in their shoes an deal with it, or else you are gonna be stuck. Genarally I found that in other to evolve, you have to observe to were you are pointing your finger and contemplate why you don't like a particular kind of people, and why they are the way the are. 

Good luck! 

Edited July 1, 2018 by Cudin

[intrastellar]

7 hours ago, Emerald said:

Greens are tolerant of all perspectives, UNLESS they perceive a perspective as intolerant to other people and their perspectives. Then, they will be very judgmental of any perspective that is encourages, enables, or is complacent to discrimination, bigotry, oppression, and unfairness in general.

That makes sense. Thanks for clarifying

[Clayman]

15 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Clayman Green is not yet conscious enough to be tolerant of intolerance.

That comes only later.

Judgment of "evil" is a very sticky thing. Very hard for the mind to let go. You're only gonna be able to let it go after some enlightenment experiences. And Green is not there yet.

The reason you're confused about this is because you're expecting Green to perfectly embody its ideals of empathy, love, and peace. Which of course Green cannot do because that would require total enlightenment -- beyond anything you can imagine.

If you're expecting Green to be Jesus, you'll be disappointed.

And even Jesus would be a SJW in your book.

Stop listening to the likes of Jordan Peterson and stop using the label "SJW". It's holding you back.

Imagine if I referred to all Blue staged people as "Nazis", all Red staged people as "Rapists", and all Orange staged people as "greedy pigs". And then I kept wondering, How come I don't understand them?

To understand a thing requires that you first stop judging it.

 @Leo Gura" I get you, this is the risk I knew I took, and that there was chance I would be misunderstood.

To be more clear I used the SJW label to describe the political aspect of the fundamentalist activists that you can find preaching this values. For the time being I am a human, had to use a word, thus somehow label. I am perfectly aware that if we set down in a park and grabbed a beer in a "non political fueled environment" some of them would turn out quite cool and likable people and might even become my best friends.

Peterson knows to get to fueled up when things get political, but is always aware enough, to correct people at every turn that he is talking about the "radical fundamentalists", and in many occasions you can see him showing his liking of green people, liking of purple people, understanding red and blue. Knowing that the way out of blue is orange, though he never read Spiral Dynamics. And being against the unhealthy variations of them.

He is not lumping them all together my point is. I would advise that if there is any beef, it stays aside, you two might more in common than you think  On the other hand, he is a clinical psychologist that deals with nut-cases every day, on can see where all that cynicism emerges from .

On my part ... yea after watching the new video, i think I might have idealized green way too much. Also its like I almost forgot about part of my life when I was very green, listening to parts of the video awoke a mini-amnesia. I can now see how I used to have all this hard held opinions about equality, world peace, ect. Actually twice in my life, only to have to let them go and go in opposite direction, and find them again, totally different.

Mysterious this existence is....

@Emerald I think I have a clue now. I thought I was somehow "radically open-minded" and see more than the regular consumerist plebs around me when I was into green, couple years ago that is. Actually I wasn't, there was still some dogma left. And as you and @Leo Gura put it, there was no tolerance of intolerance. Arguments of inequality were overlooked and put in the "lower level view" box. Similar behavior with other things.

Thanks fellas, Its actually quite hard to put yourself into your old self shoes to such a big degree. Its also cool to witness the ego backlash when you try to totally morph in older version of yourself,  whichever one that might be.

Edited July 1, 2018 by Clayman