Does free will exist?

[metwinn]

I'm curious to hear people's veiw on free will and control etc. If decisions were being made then that would implicate that there is someoene there to make the choices. I don't think this is the case but curious non the less.

[WindInTheLeaf]

Where can we draw the line between the doer and the done? Isn't that which is done doing the doer as much as that which does is doing the done?

[metwinn]

@WindInTheLeaf couldn't of put it better myself!

[Guest Quanty]

Yes,

The Mind and Cancer. 

[lmfao]

@metwinn I read quote somewhere. I can't find the source of it, but I'll paraphrase

"The non existence of free will is a wonderful discovery but an awful teaching"

 

[Bobby]

@metwinn I do think free will exists, yes, though it is limited by one's karma. I don't think the existence of free will runs in contrast with nonduality, or goes away just because you see through the illusion of self. I have noticed will to be at a level deeper than self. 

[Faceless]

Does desire imply freedom? 

Does thought-self-desire imply freedom? 

[Faceless]

Thought is alway old and never new. If we are bound by thought doesnt this mean that we are slave to the past, and therefore not free to commune with that of which is new(the now)?

Edited June 28, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

Will, volition, desire, the thinker, time, all necessitate the dualistic illusion of freewill. 

Edited June 28, 2018 by Faceless

[Ananta]

This is a hard topic to understand, but if you feel you have free will, you best exercise that will. My take is that free-will betrays your causal programming. Therefore, ultimately, free-will equals determinism. However, it will continue to "feel" like free will to the apparent person you appear to be. So, to know what is determined, you must exercise your "apparent" free-will. You have to "hold" both perspectives, which makes it a difficult topic to grasp.

[metwinn]

@Bobby I don't think believe that we have any free will to begin with. If free will does exist as you say and we both see the self to be an illusion then where do you think that this control lies?

[Faceless]

Even if we say there is no freewill and we seek security in that conclusion that implies we still are caught in the illusion of freewill. For the simple yet subtle fact that we are seeking security. If we were not caught in this illusion we wouldn’t seek psychological security at all. You notice this? 

I know many ex-Christians who say there is no free will yet seek security in that conclusion. Pisses them off when I point that out. Lol

Eventually they appreciate it though. I think ? 

Edited June 28, 2018 by Faceless

[metwinn]

@Anna1 You can never know what is determined and it is still always going to feel like you have free because it's just the way your designed. Your right

[metwinn]

@Faceless But us seeking the security isn't actually us seeking the security it just feels as such. 

[Ananta]

1 minute ago, metwinn said:

@Anna1 You can never know what is determined and it is still always going to feel like you have free because it's just the way your designed. Your right

So, once this is truly understood, the  importance of this topic just falls away or it did for me. ♡

[Faceless]

3 minutes ago, metwinn said:

@Faceless But us seeking the security isn't actually us seeking the security it just feels as such. 

If you seek security you see yourself as an independent entity. Action is then influenced by that notion. 

Make sense? 

You may not believe in freewill, but your action says otherwise 

Edited June 28, 2018 by Faceless

[metwinn]

@Anna1 Once this is truely understood I feel like the importance of everything will just fall away 

[metwinn]

@Faceless

2 minutes ago, Faceless said:

If you seek security you see yourself as an independent entity. Action is then influenced by that notion. 

Make sense? 

Yes that makes sense but I don't think it proves free will

[lmfao]

@metwinn If you want to address this question from a rationalist point of view you could intellectually arrive at the conclusion that free will does not exist. From this point of view, all of reality is composed of energy and matter moving and shuffling around in space in accordance with set laws of physics. Our brains are made out of atoms the same way a tennis ball is made out of atoms. We are no more responsible for our actions than a tennis ball is responsible for falling through air due to gravity. Our actions and thoughts, as well as the motion of the inanimate tennis ball, is all determined by set laws of physics. You could imagine our brains as extremely complex mixtures of chemicals dancing around in an elegant but predetermined way. 

When you examine modern science, and you want to be reductionist: Biology is complex chemistry. Chemistry is complex physics. And physics "just is" . 

Edited June 28, 2018 by lmfao

[Faceless]

Seeking enlightenment for example implies one is acting in accordance to the illusion of freewill.