Does free will exist?

[Faceless]

1 minute ago, metwinn said:

Yes, I understand this well, what is your point.

We get caught in illusions out of that need ”longing” for psychological security.

illusion. 

[robdl]

Just now, metwinn said:

Yes, your point?

okay, so we've established that seeking is a form of desire in which one wants something; a movement from what-is.   Can it also be said that to seek enlightenment is to escape the "unenlightened state"?  To get out of your current state?

Now what is fear? Is fear not an act of escape? Is fear not a movement-from-what-is?

Desire and fear are both a movement-from-what-is, as that is the very nature of the movement of thought-self itself, which gives it this perpetual security-seeking nature.   The security-seeking can take on the apparent form of desire or the apparent form of fear, but it's all one and the same movement.

 

[Victor Mgazi]

@Faceless would you acknowledge your current understanding of freewill a psychological security need?

[Faceless]

2 minutes ago, metwinn said:

Yes, but again, im talking about all belief. The belief that 2+2=4 is not good for my egos self worth or my well being.

Why do you even use “belief” for that ?

that is just using thought for practical-functional purposes. 

Has nothing to do with psychological becoming. 

[metwinn]

Just now, robdl said:

okay, so we've established that seeking is a form of desire in which one wants something; a movement from what-is.   Can it also be said that to seek enlightenment is to escape the "unenlightened state"?  To get out of your current state?

Now what is fear? Is fear not an act of escape? Is fear not a movement-from-what-is?

Desire and fear are both a movement-from-what-is, as that is the very nature of the movement of thought-self itself, which gives it this perpetual security-seeking nature.   The security-seeking can take on the apparent form of desire or the apparent form of fear, but it's all one and the same movement.

 

 

1 minute ago, Faceless said:

We get caught in illusions out of that need ”longing” for psychological security.

illusion. 

No one is addressing my point here you have both gone completely off topic. Faceless said belief comes from fear and I said not all beliefs come from fear or security.

[metwinn]

1 hour ago, metwinn said:

  1 hour ago, Faceless said:

I neither believe or disbelieve. As that is all within the limits of thought. 

Is the original statement. 

[Faceless]

5 minutes ago, Victor Mgazi said:

@Faceless would you acknowledge your current understanding of freewill a psychological security need?

No, there is no dependence on thought “belief or disbelief” for security. Because I see that thought is the cause of psychological insecurity. 

I don’t even go there. lol 

so if one says I believe in free will or I don’t both still imply fear. 

Edited June 29, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

I don’t seek security through the illusory psychological time. 

All seeking psychologically is a movement of fear. 

[metwinn]

1 minute ago, Faceless said:

No, there is no dependence on thought “belief or disbelief” for security. Because I see that thought is the cause of psychological insecurity. 

I don’t even do there. lol 

so if one says I believe in free will or I don’t both still imply fear. 

But you must still hold a viewpoint on the matter. What do you believe to be the case. Whether it implies fear or not you must still have a view on the matter.

[Faceless]

I am simply aware “choicelessly passive” of all that goes on within the self/and environment.

Which means not bound by thought. 

Edited June 29, 2018 by Faceless

[robdl]

"you must have a belief" ---- says the thought-network of beliefs.

[metwinn]

Just now, Faceless said:

I am simply aware “choicelessly passive” of all that goes on within the self/and environment. 

You entered this conversation one way or another from a particular belief that you expressed to everyone else on the forum so how can you say that you dont believe nor disbelieve anything to be true or false. You must have viewpoints.

[Victor Mgazi]

@FacelessFaceless I was referring to your current understanding of freewill. 

[metwinn]

1 minute ago, robdl said:

"you must have a belief" ---- says the thought-network of beliefs.

You too have expressed your beliefs no?

[Faceless]

4 minutes ago, metwinn said:

You entered this conversation one way or another from a particular belief that you expressed to everyone else on the forum so how can you say that you dont believe nor disbelieve anything to be true or false. You must have viewpoints.

I laid out facts about thought. 

Thought is old, never new, thought and therefore will-desire follows by action is predetermined

I do Not seek security in what I wrote. 

Talking about observable facts. That we can all see if we want to that is.

 

Edited June 29, 2018 by Faceless

[metwinn]

1 minute ago, Faceless said:

I laid out facts about thought. 

I do Not seek security in what I wrote. 

You were the one that first mentioned seeking security. You speak as if the facts exists somewhere over than in your mind. They too are just beliefs.

[Victor Mgazi]

@metwinn kindly reflect on your beliefs and ask yourself why is it necessary to believe what you believe.

[robdl]

5 minutes ago, metwinn said:

You too have expressed your beliefs no?

I speak on the facts of the nature of the movement of thought-self.  These aren't things I've read about and started believing.  This is based on whole, direct insight into the complete movement of thought-self.  Direct self-understanding. 

That thought-self perpetually seeks security in its own movement, and uses beliefs, knowledge, ideas, etc., to do so -- is fact.  It is to be seen for oneself.

Edited June 29, 2018 by robdl

[Faceless]

Just now, metwinn said:

You were the one that first mentioned seeking security. You speak as if the facts exists somewhere over than in your mind. They too are just beliefs.

To see the fact in oneself. Has nothing to do with belief 

[metwinn]

1 minute ago, Faceless said:

To see the fact in oneself. Has nothing to do with belief 

Define fact.