Does free will exist?

[Faceless]

4 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

You don’t know?

I’m asking you. We seem to have a communication block. So I want to make sure I don’t assume one hasn’t gone beyond where one hasn’t yet began. Lol 

you say awareness is key. Awareness to what?

Edited June 28, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

Just now, Joseph Maynor said:

Awareness of the difference between the content of thought-stories and Existential Truth.

So the difference between thought and truth? 

 

And what do you mean by existential Truth? just to be clear.

[Faceless]

6 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Full awareness and embodiment of the difference between conceptual systems and Existential Truth.

What do you mean by existential truth? 

Lets start with this first. If you don’t mind buddy

[Faceless]

No. What is existential truth? 

What does that imply? 

Where did you get that term? 

Edited June 28, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

15 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Existential Truth points to BE-ing, it means only a pointing.

I’m sorry, I didn’t see this. 

So truth is beyond thought, right?

[metwinn]

Just now, Joseph Maynor said:

Though-stories never tell us properties of Existential Truth because Existential Truth is not a thing with properties.

Pure being or existential truth is what gives rise to properties.@Faceless

[White]

On 27/06/2018 at 11:18 PM, metwinn said:

I'm curious to hear people's veiw on free will and control etc.

No, not really. Free will does not exist because we are all controlled by nature / the will to live. We can't stop that, but we can work to understand it and get some freedom from it. Which is what development is about. 

Notice that even in spiritual circles all of it is just pleasure/power seeking. We have an increase in happiness when we perceive our chances of survival going up (making money, making friends, getting sex, securing power, winning debates, collecting a following, having an imaginary God looking after our interests) and we have a decrease in happiness (anger and depression etc.) when things go wrong for us.  It's all down to the will to life, to exist. All of it is controlled by the sex, food and power drive, there is no actual free will involved in any of this. 

As an experiment start a YouTube channel talking about enlightenment and you can guarantee your state of happiness is secured because now you have girls screaming your name and guys thinking you are a profit. Same with a spiritual sangha.  It's all an ego game 

Edited June 28, 2018 by White

[Faceless]

Just now, Joseph Maynor said:

Though-stories never tell us properties of Existential Truth because Existential Truth is not a thing with properties.

Thought cannot know truth. Truth is unknowable. Right. 

So what are you aware of when you say awareness between “thought-stories” and existential truth? 

How are you (thought) aware of truth? Or are you simply aware that truth cannot be known by thought?

[Faceless]

3 minutes ago, White said:

No, not really. Free will does not exist because we are all controlled by nature / the will to live. We can't stop that, but we can work to understand it and get some freedom from it. Which is what development is about. 

Relatively there are conditions (physical-and with thought obviously) 

interdependence yes....but we are speaking psychologically. Or so I am lol

Edited June 28, 2018 by Faceless

[metwinn]

@Faceless You believe its all determined? Or just most or some aspects then?

[Faceless]

2 minutes ago, metwinn said:

@Faceless You believe its all determined? Or just most or some aspects then?

I neither believe or disbelieve. As that is all within the limits of thought. 

[metwinn]

1 minute ago, Faceless said:

I neither believe or disbelieve. As that is all within the limits of thought. 

You are then claiming that you don't believe anything to be true or false because its within the limits of thought

[Faceless]

6 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

There’s a difference between Existential Truth as a pointer and useful conceptual systems about Enlightenment.  We do use language, and that’s fine — it’s just that many of us are stuck in a Tier-One Metaphysics about ‘reality’.  Existential Truth doesn’t speak.

So when you say existential truth you mean you are truth pointing at be’ing ? 

[metwinn]

@Faceless That does not mean that you cant have beliefs. Your still bound by thought.

[Faceless]

2 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

There you go!  You’re getting it.

This has been my way the whole time mr. Joseph. 

This is why i say talk relatively. In regards to thought. That which thought can touch upon

[Faceless]

1 minute ago, metwinn said:

@Faceless That does not mean that you cant have beliefs. Your still bound by thought.

Belief implies fear. There is no fear here. There is no thought psychologically. Thought is a tool, when that tool is not in use, there is no thought. 

[Faceless]

2 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I don’t like the word ‘relative’ in this context, but I get what you’re saying.  Be careful with the word ‘relative’.

We just need to come to an agreement about word usage. 

We could use the word turkeypoo as long as we agree what it’s being used for lol

Edited June 28, 2018 by Faceless

[metwinn]

1 minute ago, Faceless said:

Belief implies fear. There is no fear here. There is no thought psychologically. Thought is a tool, when that tool is not in use, there is no thought. 

How does belief imply fear? 

[Faceless]

Why does one believe? 

 

[metwinn]

Just now, Faceless said:

Why does one believe? 

 

I could not answer that but I don't think that the answer is always because they're afraid.