Does free will exist?

[metwinn]

1 minute ago, Faceless said:

I was going going step by step to walk together in the conversation. No arguing. 

I know man thank you 

[Faceless]

1 minute ago, metwinn said:

I know man thank you 

Ok

So you get my original post that was asked about now? 

[Faceless]

6 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

Hell, went to bed at 11pm and got up for work and this thread blew up...lol. 

@Faceless I'll post when I can in response to your "reply" post. 

Sure 

[metwinn]

3 minutes ago, Faceless said:

Ok

So you get my original post that was asked about now? 

Yes completely

[Faceless]

1 minute ago, metwinn said:

Yes completely

Excellent 

[metwinn]

@Faceless  If you take a deterministic approach to looking at things the same as I, what do you think about non duality?

 

[Faceless]

11 minutes ago, metwinn said:

@Faceless  If you take a deterministic approach to looking at things the same as I, what do you think about non duality?

 

To think about “nondualness” has no meaning. 

To me, it’s only in the absence of thought/dualistic movement of the i that one can go there. Lol 

Edited June 28, 2018 by Faceless

[metwinn]

7 minutes ago, Faceless said:

To think about “nondualness” has no meaning. 

To me, it’s only in the absence of thought/dualistic movement of the i that one can go there. Lol 

Very true but I think one can have a really deep understanding of it and can become conciouss of it in day to day life. I think a good understanding of it only comes when you think determenistically and I don't think it can be realised if you believe you are making decisions

Edited June 28, 2018 by metwinn

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, metwinn said:

Very true but I think one can have a really deep understanding of it and can become conciouss of it in day to day life. I think a good understanding of it only comes when you think determenistically and I don't think it can be realised if you believe you are making decisions

Behind / prior to / within (awareness)....... the thinking & understanding. Without an a priori “I”, it is.  And yes, most definitly. Have some Kleenex handy. 

[Ananta]

16 hours ago, Faceless said:

let me know what you think....

 

Ok

16 hours ago, Faceless said:

Thought which is conditioned is one and the same movement of will/the thinker...And “our thought”, which is the result of past thought, implies that “our thought” and the direction in which “we” direct “our will”, is determined. 

 

 

16 hours ago, Faceless said:

Doesn’t this not imply that all action influenced by thought/will is both determined, and not free at all? 

 

Yep, sure does!

 

16 hours ago, Faceless said:

To conclude this nightmarish post, if we are seeking security as the i, through identification with thought (desire-will), which is influenced by past conditioning, doesn’t all that ultimately imply determined action? 

Yep, yep, yep!

 

16 hours ago, Faceless said:

The extent that we are free of thought-time, is the degree in which we are free of will-desire, and therefore free of determined action. 

 

This is true, BUT it's "determined" if one will be "free of thought". You can not control the degree in which you are free of will-desire (even if it "feels" like you can). Therefore, freedom from determined action, is determined. Lol

 

16 hours ago, Faceless said:

Only in this we wouldn’t include the use of the word “will” at all. It would just be FREEDOM. 

 

If that makes sense. Lol ?

Yes, it makes perfect sense.

Once one is free (I'd say liberated), one will still have their quirks, preferences and what not, but any binding desires/fears are neutralized. Meaning, you can do them, not do them or do something different. They also know they are not the doer/enjoyer...hence, there is freedom, as you said.

But, even all.. THAT.. is determined..lol. 

..and the price of freedom, is constant vigilance, for the "apparent" person.

Edited June 28, 2018 by Anna1

[Ananta]

@Joseph Maynor

It means lets not forget that the "apparent" person is not perfect. It is what it is and we remain associated with it, we have to remember it's an ever changing object in an ever changing field of objects and staying vigilant is a way to stay humble and free from it.

Edited June 28, 2018 by Anna1

[metwinn]

@Anna1 Thank you for putting that so well, I think its important to remind ourselves of this and to stay vigilant I cant see how it can hinder our enlightenment. @Joseph Maynor

Edited June 28, 2018 by metwinn

[Ananta]

Just now, metwinn said:

@Anna1 Thank you for putting that so well

♡ ty

 

Now, off to go grocery store I go! 

[metwinn]

This is an interesting talk on the topic and a thought experiment you can try for yourself. 

 

[Faceless]

2 hours ago, Anna1 said:

You can not control the degree in which you are free of will-desire (even if it "feels" like you can). Therefore, freedom from determined action, is determined. Lol

 

To control implies thought-desire-will right? 

Edited June 28, 2018 by Faceless

[ajasatya]

this question is a dead end. the veracity of its answer cannot be validated.

[Faceless]

2 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

What you want is awareness.

Awareness of what? 

[metwinn]

Just now, ajasatya said:

this question is a dead end. the veracity of its answer cannot be validated.

Can you explain why?

[ajasatya]

3 minutes ago, metwinn said:

Can you explain why?

what would convince you that free will exists or doesn't exist? what would a proper proof look like?

[metwinn]

1 minute ago, ajasatya said:

what would convince you that free will exists or doesn't exist? what would a proper proof look like?

You can see clearly for yourself if you approach it with an open mind.