Spiral dynamics and over-concern with categorisation

[Telepresent]

Does anyone else see spiral dynamics as a significant ego risk? I seem to see people rushing to define and categorise both themselves and others; this seems counter-productive to me (that is, if your goal is to disidentify from ego).

Thoughts welcome

[Aimblack]

It depends what kind of direction you are going. I mean for me the thing I do every single day to the point of obsession is classify, draw boundraries and distinguish between things. So when I meditate and contemplate in order to see the truth of things I don't really think that for me personally that this is the most productive route to take...because essentially all I have done is given myself access to one more way to do what I've always done. But what I really want to do is stop doing what I've always done.

[Nahm]

@Telepresent Models serve to open your mind. Paradigms, Spiral Dynamics....all you, showing you, to you. Learning a model is not a substitute for self inquiry, it is a form of self inquiry, less direct and maya though. 

[Dogsbestfriend]

Really don't see the point of it. And then people go so far as to describe people as being part this and that color... what does that even say when you really think about it, doesn't seem useful to me at all. Just another concept to create conflict, comparisons, something to grow out of imo. Have yet to see an example where it actually helps me to understand someone or myself better. I don't need a classification to help me see where a persons actions are coming from. Don't think there's a need for more methods of separation. And people are often too complex imo to be part of one group and then the advantage of the color simplification diminishes a lot .. anyways - that's just my opinion, if it others get value out of it good for them.

[robdl]

Thought/self loves to distinguish, measure, categorize, classify, label, group, conceptualize.  Thought/intellect fuel.

Thought/self seeks security in the concept/knowledge as it perpetuates thought/self itself, as the concept/knowledge is of thought, too.  So it is thought seeking thought; thought feeding on thought.

Seeking security only breeds insecurity.  Fear breeds fear.  Thought/self breeds thought/self. 3 ways to describe one and the same movement.

Edited June 25, 2018 by robdl

[Faceless]

Where there is this compulsion and movement to measure, in that is a direct expression of an inward lack of freedom. Measure is a manifestation of fear. 

Where there is measure there is fear, and where there is fear, freedom is not. 

When there is no freedom, there can be no complete action. Action that is infinite/whole. 

 

Edited June 25, 2018 by Faceless

[dorg]

4 hours ago, Telepresent said:

Does anyone else see spiral dynamics as a significant ego risk? I seem to see people rushing to define and categorise both themselves and others; this seems counter-productive to me (that is, if your goal is to disidentify from ego).

Thoughts welcome

Ken Wilber posits a difference between waking up and growing up. Spiral dynamics is a tool to assist with the later.

Where you are in the spiral (what level of human consciousness you predominantly operate from) determines how you will interpret a 'spiritual experience'.

I see it's immediate advantage is in showing that there is more than one level of human consciousness - which is what most humans have assumed to date - but this is changing.

 

[Guest Quanty]

Is a personality test more or less, so yes, is duality and EGO. Is useful in a way. 

[dorg]

9 minutes ago, Quanty said:

Is a personality test more or less

I see this as a severe limitation on it's usefulness.

[Clayman]

Its just a quite useful tool, what we do with it is just our own doing, it's not something inherited to the tool. Be careful with it be, you must.

[Nahm]

Seems informative & useful, understanding the values individuals & groups assign. When that awareness is redirected inward it is helpful for self inquiry. It can help us to see how we have been assigning values from conditioning / past experiences, all relative to the ego. It seems like more of a tool or aid for liberation. 

[How to be wise]

@Telepresent As Ken Wilber said, enlightenment and spiral dynamics are basically two different things. You can be in the highest stages of enlightenment and in the same time be in the lowest stages of spiral dynamics. And vice versa you can be in the highest stages of spiral dynamics and know nothing about enlightenment. 

[luckieluuke]

Many times in my life I have seen a connection with personal growth and growth of a society/group/culture. I find that spiral dynamics gives an explanation to that. To me Spiral dynamics seems like a new tool, a lens to see our history with. And our history is important to know and understand if we are to grow. It also helps to conceptualize what we need to do next. 

Yes Spiral dynamics is a map and not the territory, but when you don´t know better it can be helpful even thou it is not true. It´s similar to buddhist teachings, they are not sacret and not "true" but they do help to show the way.

So I see Sprial dynamics as a useful tool. Similar to evolution. But be mindful when you use it and know that it is only a map and not the territory. 

[Rilles]

Your overconcern causes you more trouble than the model itself

[luckieluuke]

Come to think of it, this is one of my biggest critique of non dualism / enlightenment. And I know it´s only because of my own ignorance but it seems like such a simple answer to discard all of humans collected knowledge. We are all one and the same so nothing seems to matter. 

Spiral dynamics is a complex idea and an impressive body of work and it´s so simple to discard it with "yea yea, but it isnt real, its just your ego, we are all the same infinity" I cannot help but feel a pointlessness to that non dual idea. Similiar to post modernism who say there are infinite ways to view reality and no way is better than the other and there is no meaning to try to value things.

Similar to what Leo described in his 30 days retreat (14 days?) that he is everyone so whats the meaning of interacting with reality when you are just interacting with yourself. It all seems pointless and very depressive.

So even if i kinda intuit that the Sprial dynamics is not real and just a map im not ready to give it up just because of that. I like to value it over other maps. I like to use it because it gives meaning to my life. Maybe when I´m more non dual, my ego is smaller I will see things differently. 

[Joseph Maynor]

3 hours ago, luckieluuke said:

Come to think of it, this is one of my biggest critique of non dualism / enlightenment. And I know it´s only because of my own ignorance but it seems like such a simple answer to discard all of humans collected knowledge. We are all one and the same so nothing seems to matter. 

Spiral dynamics is a complex idea and an impressive body of work and it´s so simple to discard it with "yea yea, but it isnt real, its just your ego, we are all the same infinity" I cannot help but feel a pointlessness to that non dual idea. Similiar to post modernism who say there are infinite ways to view reality and no way is better than the other and there is no meaning to try to value things.

Similar to what Leo described in his 30 days retreat (14 days?) that he is everyone so whats the meaning of interacting with reality when you are just interacting with yourself. It all seems pointless and very depressive.

So even if i kinda intuit that the Sprial dynamics is not real and just a map im not ready to give it up just because of that. I like to value it over other maps. I like to use it because it gives meaning to my life. Maybe when I´m more non dual, my ego is smaller I will see things differently. 

A lot of the reason they say ‘renounce knowledge’ is because they don’t have knowledge.  It’s easy to renounce something you ain’t got.  These people should renounce their renouncing of knowledge.  They don’t know what to say to that.  You’ll get a ‘deer in the headlights’ look from them.

Edited June 26, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[robdl]

6 hours ago, Outer said:

You might as well talk about Golf. See that the spiral dynamics examples is in the "Self-Actualization" forum section, it doesn't belong here.

Talking about golf may actually be more profound than labeling celebrities with imaginary colours.  At least in golf you have to empty your mind/be in the moment to execute a stroke.

Edited June 26, 2018 by robdl

[WelcometoReality]

@Telepresent As any tool spiral dynamics can be misused and overemphasized.

Compare it to the bible. It can be used as a way to awaken but also as a way to control people and misguide them.

The problem is not the tool though. It's always the user.