Psychedelics and Yoga are bad? Conflicting advice from teachers

[WindInTheLeaf]

8 minutes ago, robdl said:

By not explaining the light, but by getting them to understand the nature of the cave in which they occupy -- to see the cave for what it is.   For to explain the light, it will inevitably be viewed through their cave lens.

Exactly(as exact as exact can be).

8 minutes ago, Faceless said:

You cannot explain the light. You can only point to the light. 

What @robdl and I do is to show all the subtle inter-relationships of thought. To point so one can see in oneself how each “particular” movement of thought is actully one unitary movement. 

We share the significance of investigating the nature of thought-self. 

Yes I see, but if your aim is to show the unitary movement of thought within one self(to bring an ending to thought by illuminating it), it is important to write it in a way in which those who seek guidance can understand, such as to not cause more thought-entanglement.

Edited June 27, 2018 by WindInTheLeaf

[WindInTheLeaf]

2 minutes ago, Faceless said:

To get it in pieces is to not get it. It must be seen as one holistic and complete insight. 

To get it in pieces implies that that understanding is partial-limited. Thought-intellect will only capture pieces. 

You can never show the complete insight. Thought cannot bring an ending to thought. Thought is always concerned with manifestations of the whole, and is the tool to prepare someone for the enlightenment experience, by reducing the shock of ego-death.

[Faceless]

20 minutes ago, WindInTheLeaf said:

Exactly(as exact as exact can be).

Yes I see, but if your aim is to show the unitary movement of thought within one self(to bring an ending to thought by illuminating it), it is important to write it in a way in which those who seek guidance can understand, such as to not cause more thought-entanglement.

Of course. It will ultimately take one to investigate for oneself. I like to come at it from all angles. 

Edited June 27, 2018 by Faceless

[WindInTheLeaf]

1 minute ago, Faceless said:

Of course. It will ultimately take one to investigate for oneself. I like to come at it form all angles. 

My point is, that instead of insisting on explaining non-duality, explain the peculiarity of duality. It's like making people start questioning instead of trying to give them the answers.

[Faceless]

Just now, WindInTheLeaf said:

You can never show the complete insight. Thought cannot bring an ending to thought. Thought is always concerned with manifestations of the whole, and is the tool to prepare someone for the enlightenment experience, by reducing the shock of ego-death.

Of course insight cannot be given by anohter. And indeed thought cannot end thought. 

To seek enlightenment is to employ thought-self through means of psychological becoming. Any movement of volition is a movement of thought. 

[WindInTheLeaf]

1 minute ago, Faceless said:

Of course insight cannot be given by anohter. And indeed thought cannot end thought. 

To seek enlightenment is to employ thought-self through means of psychological becoming. Any movement of volition is a movement of thought. 

If you took someone who has never cliff-dived before to the highest cliff and told them to dive into the water far below, they would probably become scared of cliff-diving. If you instead took them to some of the lower cliffs first, and progress to higher and higher cliffs just by having fun, they might be ready for the big one sooner than you think.

[robdl]

Those living in the cave have made a lot of conclusions, assumptions, beliefs about the cave -- they've taken the cave for granted.  They've been handed a lot of knowledge about the cave through others who have lived in or are living in it; and they've clung to that knowledge.  They may take certain gratifications of living in the cave or seek security in various aspects of cave living.  They have also been told about the world outside the cave, and seek to get out of the cave, but this seeking to get outside the cave so far has not helped, as the seeking has only really just been a pacifier/distraction.  So we start to point out the network of these pieces of knowledge, assumptions, conclusions, desires, seeking, etc.  An observation of the cave that is not conditioned, free of the past, may consequently unfold.  Whole insight.

[Faceless]

7 minutes ago, WindInTheLeaf said:

My point is, that instead of insisting on explaining non-duality, explain the peculiarity of duality. It's like making people start questioning instead of trying to give them the answers.

People should question for themselves. We don’t want to give anyone answers, as we cannnot anyway.

Edited June 27, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

3 minutes ago, WindInTheLeaf said:

If you took someone who has never cliff-dived before to the highest cliff and told them to dive into the water far below, they would probably become scared of cliff-diving. If you instead took them to some of the lower cliffs first, and progress to higher and higher cliffs just by having fun, they might be ready for the big one sooner than you think.

You are implying cultivation of time is a means to end time? 

[Faceless]

4 minutes ago, robdl said:

Those living in the cave have made a lot of conclusions, assumptions, beliefs about the cave -- they've taken the cave for granted.  They've been handed a lot of knowledge about the cave through others who have lived in or are living in it; and they've clung to that knowledge.  They may take certain gratifications of living in the cave or seek security in various aspects of cave living.  They have also been told about the world outside the cave, and seek to get out of the cave, but this seeking to get outside the cave so far has not helped, as the seeking has only really just been a pacifier/distraction.  So we start to point out the network of these pieces of knowledge, assumptions, conclusions, desires, seeking, etc.  An observation of the cave that is not conditioned, free of the past, may consequently unfold.  Whole insight.

Well said. 

[WindInTheLeaf]

1 minute ago, Faceless said:

People should question for themselves. We don’t want to give anyone answers. 

But they will invariably read and contemplate what you write, as you have come really far compared to many others on this forum. With power comes responsibility. The more you embody nothingness - no-seeking - the more people will seek you out, and look towards you for words of wisdom. You cannot avoid people looking for answers, so why not provide the answers that are questions?

[WindInTheLeaf]

8 minutes ago, Faceless said:

You are implying cultivation of time is a means to end time? 

That the cultivation of time is a means to transition towards no-time. You can prepare them for the cliff, but you cannot make them jump. But then again, if they jump because they are ready to jump, the cultivation of time is a means to end time. As people are stuck in time already, you cannot avoid using time/duality to help them escape it.

Edited June 27, 2018 by WindInTheLeaf

[Faceless]

6 minutes ago, WindInTheLeaf said:

But they will invariably read and contemplate what you write, as you have come really far compared to many others on this forum. With power comes responsibility. The more you embody nothingness - no-seeking - the more people will seek you out, and look towards you for words of wisdom. You cannot avoid people looking for answers, so why not provide the answers that are questions?

Definitely, to ask questions is ultimately the best way to share. 

4 minutes ago, WindInTheLeaf said:

That the cultivation of time is a means to transition towards no-time. You can prepare them for the cliff, but you cannot make them jump.

To promote the cultivation of time is to promote fear as a means to end fear. This is a major contradiction, and totally unnecessary. 

What I am sharing is the necessity of learning the nature of thought(oneself) 

i have nothing to offer anyone other than to point to the necessity of exploring oneself. That’s it. No guru nonsense, as that is to nourish the stream of fear in another. 

I will not participate in that personally. 

Edited June 27, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

Transition is a movement of procrastination. Thought loves to procrastinate. Lol 

[Faceless]

It can take you a lifetime to end time by falling for thoughts compulsion to procrastinate. Or you can end Time now by seeing the futility in that. 

 

It can take a months/to a year or so, or it can take a lifetime, if ever. Which one sounds better? 

Edited June 27, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

It can be very tricky indeed. I appreciate simply learning about the nature of thought, that way we can identify when thought is in movement or not. That way we know when time is in movement or not. That way there is no positive or negative movement taking place, but instead choicless passivity( timeless action) 

Edited June 27, 2018 by Faceless

[WindInTheLeaf]

18 minutes ago, Faceless said:

To promote the cultivation of time is to promote fear as a means to end fear. This is a major contradiction, and totally unnecessary. 

What I am sharing is the necessity of learning the nature of thought(oneself) 

You have to accept that although from your point of view time might not exist, it does so for probably most people in the world. I am not promoting, merely pointing towards something that exists for everyone who is not enlightened. We have to work with what we've got. I might very well be wrong, but i encourage you to reflect on how to better convey the message of the light to people who have never seen it. 

Edit: And i have to accept  that talking about time will never bring an ending to time. I might have been mentally masturbating for these past posts, as all it requires is one to fully transcend, for everyone to. So i guess you are right that we shouldn't be talking about shadows.

Edited June 27, 2018 by WindInTheLeaf

[Faceless]

4 minutes ago, WindInTheLeaf said:

You have to accept that although from your point of view time might not exist, it does so for probably most people in the world. I am not promoting, merely pointing towards something that exists for everyone who is not enlightened. We have to work with what we've got. I might very well be wrong, but i encourage you to reflect on how to better convey the message of the light to people who have never seen it. 

I am only conveying to understanding onself. To investigate thought. They will come to this on there own. I am just information. Not a teacher/guide. People can investigate for themselves. Never accept anyone, especially myself. 

There is no light until you see it for yourself. Until then it’s all an assumption. You can assume one is enlightened, but that is an assumption based off one who is not.

Edited June 27, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

6 minutes ago, WindInTheLeaf said:

You have to accept that although from your point of view time might not exist, it does so for probably most people in the world.

I am speaking of time as thought by the way as well. Just so you know buddy

And Time as the interval between what has been an now and now and what will be. 

[Faceless]

Thought-self is the product of the accumulation of time(experience, knowledge, memory) 

The movement of psychological becoming and unbecoming as the self.