Psychedelics and Yoga are bad? Conflicting advice from teachers

[cle103]

Hey guys, I've got a little battle going on...

I've been personally working with one of the authors on Leo's book list. I won't mention names. She basically told me that psychedelics are dangerous and can be really destructive for ones karma. 

She told me she worked with thousands of people who have suffered various ailments due to drug use and that psychedelics cause major disruptions in ones energy body. 

Same goes with Pranayama/Kriya Yoga. She said if applied wrongly and without a proper teacher who gives you the right routine for your set point it could really fuck you up.

I'm torn between... to say the least. Psychedelics have been by far some of the best experiences in my life. Kriya Yoga has been beneficial but hard to judge as I'm only doing it for 4-5 months or so. 

She said that she herself is not fully enlightened however when we do our coaching sessions I can feel a fucking presence. Even through Skype. And when I go into her guided meditation I can feel it turnt up by 100. 

She told me to ditch psychedelics and yoga and focus on Tibetan Buddhism combined with some forms of chakra meditation and visualization. I think I'll give her style a go for the next month at least. 

But man... I'm not fucking sure. What are your thoughts? Especially regarding Yoga and Psychedelics? 

- Namaste Bitches 

[Nahm]

It’s how you interpret, percieve, experience it, until it’s not an interpretation, perception or experience.  Or, filter of (mental) self, until realization of no self. 

Chopping wood, carrying water. 

[Viking]

1 hour ago, cle103 said:

major disruptions in ones energy body

what does it mean?

[Isaac Ben]

@cle103 I say follow your heart/intuition no matter what people say.

[robdl]

Thought-self can seek security in its own movement by invoking the memory of the psychedelic experience, i.e. thought perpetuating thought.   People need to be wary of this mind trap.

People talking about their psychedelic experiences is in principle not any different than talking about their prior vacation to Cancun, in the sense of the movement of thought-self using time/memory for perpetuation.

Psychedelics show the possibility/glimpse.  Don't get attached to what happened. With attachment, psychedelics become a hindrance, not a help.

Observe the tendency in one's self to invoke the past/memory compulsively.

Edited June 25, 2018 by robdl

[Richard Alpert]

there is a thin line between waking up and going crazy.

most of her students probably had some sort of awakening and were not able to ground themselves.

but yes, psychedelics in wrong hands can be dangerous. but in right hands they are quite safe.

 

[Salvijus]

2 hours ago, cle103 said:

when we do our coaching sessions I can feel a fucking presence. Even through Skype. And when I go into her guided meditation I can feel it turnt up by 100. 

 

Looool

[Salvijus]

Sadhguru says psychedelics will make you incapeable of dealing with life in the long term. 

[Guest Quanty]

Not true, only for the dormant. But once you open and awaken and channel the energy, then the high is so potent than any psychedelic while you can function in daily life seeing through various dimensions of space/time at once and moving in space/time parallel with your inner intention. 

Example: Walking 5 kilometers at the same speed km/h and reaching the destination faster. (Inception Like) 

 

[cirkussmile]

You don’t have to ditch psycadelics forever, you can always come back to it.

If you want to follow this teacher you have to surrender fully to her teachings. Try it seriously and see if it gives you anything.

But whatever you do! Don’t try to be smart and mix up all the techniques! This is a problem for many that they mix up too many techniques and never commit fully to one. Try one technique at a time so you know what technique is best for you. 

[Nahm]

10 hours ago, cle103 said:

She said that she herself is not fully enlightened however when we do our coaching sessions I can feel a fucking presence. Even through Skype. And when I go into her guided meditation I can feel it turnt up by 100. 

Sounds like she is well grounded, but not aware of nonduality yet. Her views would change. Also sounds like you’re possibly attracted to her, you could be projecting. 

10 hours ago, cle103 said:

She told me she worked with thousands of people who have suffered various ailments due to drug use and that psychedelics cause major disruptions in ones energy body. 

Same goes with Pranayama/Kriya Yoga. She said if applied wrongly and without a proper teacher who gives you the right routine for your set point it could really fuck you up.

Hope I’m not just being cynical, but notice how these things directly secure the work that she does. How is she missing the much larger sample of people who were healed / helped? And has any one person worked with thousands of people who needed help from psychedelics? Other drugs I certainly could see. What system even funnels people with psychedelic ailments to her? Any treatment center or hospital would be receiving people with ailments from all drugs, primarily ego stimulating addictive ones, not psychedelics.   I wonder what specific experience she is speaking from. 

10 hours ago, cle103 said:

Same goes with Pranayama/Kriya Yoga. She said if applied wrongly and without a proper teacher who gives you the right routine for your set point it could really fuck you up.

People die eating French fries wrong. Someone could apply hand lotion ‘wrongly’ and fuck themself all up. I think you’re able to distinguish, as you said...”best experiences” & “beneficial”. Seems like you might be putting her on a pedestal for some reason, causing you to doubt your self, and what you have found works well for you. 

Also, you can only know the methods she suggests by trying them. I agree with @cirkussmile..one at a time. 

[How to be wise]

@cle103 she is clearly wrong about Kriya yoga. It has been practiced for more than a hundred years by some very hardcore people with no problems being mentioned. As for psychedelics, shamans have been taking psychedelics for millennia. Had psychedelics been dangerous, they wouldn’t have continued using it for this long. You’re teacher sounds inexperienced. 

As for her ‘presence’, if you believe that she is someone very special, your mind will create a feeling of her superiority. When you’re in a no-mind state, it’s not possible to feel someone’s ‘presence’ because you hold no belief that they are any different from you. 

My adive: become an independent thinker. Don’t trust any person too much. Investigate within yourself where her ‘presence’ is coming from. You might come to realise that you in fact were creating her ‘presence’.

Edited June 26, 2018 by How to be wise

[Matt8800]

20 hours ago, cle103 said:

Hey guys, I've got a little battle going on...

I've been personally working with one of the authors on Leo's book list. I won't mention names. She basically told me that psychedelics are dangerous and can be really destructive for ones karma. 

She told me she worked with thousands of people who have suffered various ailments due to drug use and that psychedelics cause major disruptions in ones energy body. 

Same goes with Pranayama/Kriya Yoga. She said if applied wrongly and without a proper teacher who gives you the right routine for your set point it could really fuck you up.

I'm torn between... to say the least. Psychedelics have been by far some of the best experiences in my life. Kriya Yoga has been beneficial but hard to judge as I'm only doing it for 4-5 months or so. 

She said that she herself is not fully enlightened however when we do our coaching sessions I can feel a fucking presence. Even through Skype. And when I go into her guided meditation I can feel it turnt up by 100. 

She told me to ditch psychedelics and yoga and focus on Tibetan Buddhism combined with some forms of chakra meditation and visualization. I think I'll give her style a go for the next month at least. 

But man... I'm not fucking sure. What are your thoughts? Especially regarding Yoga and Psychedelics? 

- Namaste Bitches 

@cle103 That is why Lahiri Mahasaya said one should follow their inner guru. How do you know that a "teacher" is actually enlightened? Popular opinion? How would someone who has never taken psychedelics be qualified in any way to comment on them? Even if someone is enlightened, why is it assumed that they know everything about everything? Why would you take anyone's advice that has never had experience with them? We must take responsibility for our own spiritual growth.

I rarely quote bible verses but my favorite is "You can judge the tree by the fruit on them." For me, psychedelics take a lot of credit for my progress.

Edited June 26, 2018 by Matt8800

[Viking]

18 hours ago, Salvijus said:

Sadhguru says psychedelics will make you incapeable of dealing with life in the long term. 

can you link the specific video please?

[Salvijus]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HJSacL8lHoI&t=0s

[cle103]

23 hours ago, Viking said:

what does it mean?

It means you've got an energy body and if you use psychedelics they can damage it so "bad" energy can come in or you get some symptoms of the dark night of the soul. 

 

23 hours ago, robdl said:

Don't get attached to what happened. With attachment, psychedelics become a hindrance, not a help.

Observe the tendency in one's self to invoke the past/memory compulsively.

Thanks for your comment. I could go my whole life without touching them again. I just had some mind blowing experiences and can't really imagine that they are harmful. 

 

22 hours ago, Salvijus said:

Sadhguru says psychedelics will make you incapeable of dealing with life in the long term. 

Hard to judge. I have not used them long term. 

 

19 hours ago, Quanty said:

Not true, only for the dormant.

What do you mean by "not true"? 

 

14 hours ago, cirkussmile said:

If you want to follow this teacher you have to surrender fully to her teachings. Try it seriously and see if it gives you anything.

But whatever you do! Don’t try to be smart and mix up all the techniques!

Yeah, that's what she said as well. Don't mix it up... 

 

14 hours ago, Nahm said:

Also sounds like you’re possibly attracted to her, you could be projecting. 

Don't worry mate, she's in her 60s and I'm in my 20s  I may have chosen the wrong words: I was specifically referring to our guided meditations. Last time there was just uncontrollable laughter coming up and I felt my ego dissolving. I've never experienced that sober before. 

 

14 hours ago, Nahm said:

Hope I’m not just being cynical, but notice how these things directly secure the work that she does. How is she missing the much larger sample of people who were healed / helped? And has any one person worked with thousands of people who needed help from psychedelics?

Yes, that's what I was thinking as well. She is a drugs counsellor. So many people she sees are fucked up. However that's not your actualized.org educated psychonaut. At least that's what I'd think. I told her that as well but she wasn't seeing my point and said using psychedelics is like burning money if karma was all the money one has saved over life times. 

 

13 hours ago, How to be wise said:

As for psychedelics, shamans have been taking psychedelics for millennia. Had psychedelics been dangerous, they wouldn’t have continued using it for this long. You’re teacher sounds inexperienced. 

I share your opinion. However it's hard to judge. They could also have fucked themselves up in a major way without knowing better. I personally don't think so but it's a possibility. 

 

13 hours ago, How to be wise said:

As for her ‘presence’, if you believe that she is someone very special, your mind will create a feeling of her superiority.

As noted above "presence" was probably the wrong way to put it. 

 

9 hours ago, Outer said:

Yoga is moving your body and breathing in a specific way. What about walking?

Yeah but it's breathing on steroids to say the least. I think there's a reason why it has been kept secret. But then again, I could be wrong. 

 

5 hours ago, Matt8800 said:

How would someone who has never taken psychedelics be qualified in any way to comment on them? Even if someone is enlightened, why is it assumed that they know everything about everything?

Thanks mate, that's some food for thought. 

[cle103]

53 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Psychedelics can be useful in moderation unless you have a tendency to go into La La land with them, which leads to massive tail-chasing which is painful to watch others go through.  I didn’t find Kriya Yoga useful at all.  Daily Meditation is very useful.  Do Nothing Meditation in particular is very useful.  And 200 mics of LSD three times per year is very useful for me.  

Yeah, I guess everyone has to find his unique path. 

[robdl]

30 minutes ago, cle103 said:

Thanks for your comment. I could go my whole life without touching them again. I just had some mind blowing experiences and can't really imagine that they are harmful. 

 

I wasn't necessarily referring to whether or not you'd be using them again.  I'm talking about attachment to the memory, experience.  The attachment to the memory/experience fuels the ego/thought.

Where the mind is recalling the experience, cherishing it, it's a movement of thought-self-ego in action. The experience recall invokes the false 'I'-self.

Edited June 26, 2018 by robdl

[Mirror of Confusion]

@Joseph Maynor How long did you practice Kriya? Some people say that the effects may first appear after some moths of consistent practice.

[Joseph Maynor]

8 minutes ago, Mirror of Confusion said:

@Joseph Maynor How long did you practice Kriya? Some people say that the effects may first appear after some moths of consistent practice.

To me, it’s irrelevant.  I didn’t need it.

Edited June 26, 2018 by Joseph Maynor