Psychedelics and Yoga are bad? Conflicting advice from teachers

[robdl]

When I see someone carrying 4-5 spiritual methods/techniques with them simultaneously, red flags go off.  There's sort of a "I'm not sure what to do so I'll do everything" quality to it, a sort of bet hedging --- which hints at doubt/fear/confusion.  Also a quality of extreme effort/volition, which suggests a lack of understanding as to what the nature of seeking/volition is in itself.  And where doubt/fear/confusion/seeking/striving are in movement, it can be assured ego is in movement.  And naturally, ego can't kill ego, in spite of the fact it "thinks" it can/will.

This is not to demean or condemn anyone.  These thought-traps have been seen firsthand in myself and I'm just pointing to them.  For someone to expose a thought-trap for themselves I take great joy in.  Ultimate truth/love in communication. We are in this together.

Edited June 26, 2018 by robdl

[Nahm]

 

On 6/25/2018 at 3:03 PM, robdl said:

Thought-self can seek security in its own movement by invoking the memory of the psychedelic experience, i.e. thought perpetuating thought.   People need to be wary of this mind trap.

People talking about their psychedelic experiences is in principle not any different than talking about their prior vacation to Cancun, in the sense of the movement of thought-self using time/memory for perpetuation.

Psychedelics show the possibility/glimpse.  Don't get attached to what happened. With attachment, psychedelics become a hindrance, not a help.

Observe the tendency in one's self to invoke the past/memory compulsively.

I agree with you on this. What psychadelics have you done, what amounts? 

[robdl]

2 hours ago, Nahm said:

 

I agree with you on this. What psychadelics have you done, what amounts? 

mushrooms - typically 6 g; 5meo - 17 mg

[Faceless]

20 hours ago, robdl said:

When I see someone carrying 4-5 spiritual methods/techniques with them simultaneously, red flags go off.  There's sort of a "I'm not sure what to do so I'll do everything" quality to it, a sort of bet hedging --- which hints at doubt/fear/confusion.  Also a quality of extreme effort/volition, which suggests a lack of understanding as to what the nature of seeking/volition is in itself.  And where doubt/fear/confusion/seeking/striving are in movement, it can be assured ego is in movement.  And naturally, ego can't kill ego, in spite of the fact it "thinks" it can/will.

This is not to demean or condemn anyone.  These thought-traps have been seen firsthand in myself and I'm just pointing to them.  For someone to expose a thought-trap for themselves I take great joy in.  Ultimate truth/love in communication. We are in this together.

Wisdom at its finest. 

[cle103]

4 hours ago, Nahm said:

I agree with you on this. What psychadelics have you done, what amounts? 

Various trips on mushrooms. Between 1.8 and 4 grams. 

[cle103]

21 hours ago, robdl said:

This is not to demean or condemn anyone.  These thought-traps have been seen firsthand in myself and I'm just pointing to them.  For someone to expose a thought-trap for themselves I take great joy in.  Ultimate truth/love in communication. We are in this together.

Thanks for your comment. So the suggestion would be to stick to one and go fully into it. I understand that and it makes sense. How do you stand on the position of Leo? He has a Kriya practice, does psychedelics as well as other forms of meditation. 

[Nahm]

@robdl Thanks for sharing. I was curious, and that was about what I suspected. ❤️ 

[robdl]

54 minutes ago, cle103 said:

Thanks for your comment. So the suggestion would be to stick to one and go fully into it. I understand that and it makes sense. How do you stand on the position of Leo? He has a Kriya practice, does psychedelics as well as other forms of meditation. 

This is very subtle.  Self-deception is here, now, in the moment.  Self-deception isn't off in the future.  

So let's go into this very carefully, slowly.

Thought-self has been told that to have a myriad of methods is a bet hedging; a reflection of fear/doubt; a reflection of thought-self (ego) itself in movement. 

So what does thought-self then do? It reacts again with insecurity, searching for security in the idea/concept of just "sticking to one" method.  Seeking guidance.  Again, thought-self in movement.

What is necessary is pure observation into the mechanistic nature of thought-self: always self-perpetuating, seeking security in its own movement.  Seeking security in methods, concepts, the authority of another (all of which are of thought).  All of this seeking is a movement of fear; the movement of thought-self.

To not seek enlightenment or methods or authority but to observe with passive, whole attention the movement of this seeking itself.  Observation free of the "seeker".   Then there is whole insight into the movement of thought-self, and therefore freedom from its traps.

Thought-self may read the above and again, see it as a concept and seek security in it; commit it to knowledge and regurgitate it later --- allowing thought-self to perpetuate still.  This must also be observed.

Edited June 27, 2018 by robdl

[Faceless]

10 minutes ago, robdl said:

This is very subtle.  Self-deception is here, now, in the moment.  Self-deception isn't off in the future.  

So let's go into this very carefully, slowly.

Thought-self has been told that to have a myriad of methods is a bet hedging; a reflection of fear/doubt; a reflection of thought-self (ego) itself in movement. 

So what does thought-self then do? It reacts again with insecurity, searching for security in the idea/concept of just "sticking to one" method.  Seeking guidance.  Again, thought-self in movement.

What is necessary is pure observation into the mechanistic nature of thought-self: always self-perpetuating, seeking security in its own movement.  Seeking security in methods, concepts, the authority of another.  All of this seeking is a movement of fear; the movement of thought-self.

To not seek enlightenment or methods or authority but to observe with passive, whole attention the movement of this seeking itself.  Observation free of the "seeker".   Then there is whole insight into the movement of thought-self, and therefore freedom from its traps.

Thought-self may read the above and again, see it as a concept and seek security in it; commit it to knowledge and regurgitate it later --- allowing thought-self to perpetuate still.  This must also be observed.

Choiceless passivity, the art of observation/seeing. 

[Charlotte]

@robdl

1 hour ago, robdl said:

This is very subtle.  Self-deception is here, now, in the moment.  Self-deception isn't off in the future.  

So let's go into this very carefully, slowly.

Thought-self has been told that to have a myriad of methods is a bet hedging; a reflection of fear/doubt; a reflection of thought-self (ego) itself in movement. 

So what does thought-self then do? It reacts again with insecurity, searching for security in the idea/concept of just "sticking to one" method.  Seeking guidance.  Again, thought-self in movement.

What is necessary is pure observation into the mechanistic nature of thought-self: always self-perpetuating, seeking security in its own movement.  Seeking security in methods, concepts, the authority of another (all of which are of thought).  All of this seeking is a movement of fear; the movement of thought-self.

To not seek enlightenment or methods or authority but to observe with passive, whole attention the movement of this seeking itself.  Observation free of the "seeker".   Then there is whole insight into the movement of thought-self, and therefore freedom from its traps.

Thought-self may read the above and again, see it as a concept and seek security in it; commit it to knowledge and regurgitate it later --- allowing thought-self to perpetuate still.  This must also be observed.

??

[robdl]

Before there is any employment of method or technique, we must first understand within ourselves this movement of volition/fear/seeking; this movement-from-what-is in oneself.  Otherwise whatever method/technique we use will just be used by thought-self-time, for the perpetuation of thought-self-time.  Not much different than thought-self finding about some method to get rich quick in 6 months.  The movement of ego can't end ego --- obviously.

Thought-self will pretend like it's going to set out to use techniques to end thought-self, but it never actually follows through on it LOL.  As the techniques/methods themselves can fuel thought/self/time.

Edited June 27, 2018 by robdl

[Charlotte]

10 minutes ago, robdl said:

fear/seeking

What are we seeking and fearing so much?

[Faceless]

11 minutes ago, robdl said:

Before there is any employment of method or technique, we must first understand within ourselves this movement of volition/fear/seeking; this movement-from-what-is in oneself.  Otherwise whatever method/technique we use will just be used by thought-self-time, for the perpetuation of thought-self-time.

Thought-self will pretend like it's going to set out to use techniques to end thought-self, but it never actually follows through on it LOL.  As the techniques/methods themselves can fuel thought/self/time.

Yes sir...

Techniques and methods are the result of experience, knowledge, memory, THOUGHT. As is the self. 

Only the self attributes the quality as being independent from that very content/movement of the past. But it in fact, is one and the same movement of time. 

Thought-self doesn’t see that by it employing knowledge/experience, it is actually sustaining its own continuity. This is a subtle form of self preservation at work. 

Edited June 27, 2018 by Faceless

[robdl]

23 minutes ago, Charlotte said:

What are we seeking and fearing so much?

Thought/self is simply seeking security/permanence in its own movement. 

The thought-objects of fear and seeking always change. 

Thought-self doesn't care about the thought-content/thought-objects so long as its movement is getting perpetuated/nourished by them.

These thought-objects may be pleasant things, they may be terrible things.  If there's any tendency to identify/escape/attach/seek security in them, then thought-self is eager to make use of them to self-perpetuate.

So it's not about the thought-content, it's about the nature of the movement of thought-self itself.   To see the whole of this is insight into the movement of thought-self.

Edited June 27, 2018 by robdl

[robdl]

21 minutes ago, Faceless said:

Yes sir...

Techniques and methods are the result of experience, knowledge, memory, THOUGHT. As is the self. 

Only the self attributes the quality as being independent from that very content/movement of the past. But it in fact, is one and the same movement of time. 

Thought-self doesn’t see that by it employing knowledge/experience, it is actually sustaining its own continuity. This is a subtle form of self preservation at work. 

Yep. So critical to understand that knowledge/experience/memory/method, whether of the spiritual authority, or whether one's own inward, personal (psychological) authority, is made out of thought-time and can nourish thought-self (time).

Edited June 27, 2018 by robdl

[Charlotte]

So let me get this straight... Thought/self is always seeking security in its self for itself...  It doesn't matter about the actual thought content as long as it's always thinking/perpetuating.

Thought 'breeds' best from negativity, attachment, identification, seeking etc?

[Faceless]

1 minute ago, robdl said:

Yep. So critical to understand that knowledge/experience, whether of the spiritual authority, or whether one's own, is made out of thought-time and will nourish thought-self (time).

Critical indeed. 

 

[robdl]

Thought-self cares about the specific content of thought, naturally -- cares about specific thoughts, identifying/attaching to them.   But there is pure observation that is unconcerned with the specific content, as it is observing the whole movement of thought-self.

[Faceless]

3 minutes ago, Charlotte said:

 

So let me get this straight... Thought/self is always seeking security in its self for itself..

 

You got it. The self seeks security in its own movement. A subtle Clinging to the known, which is the knower. Without the known there is no knower, which is frightening. 

Edited June 27, 2018 by Faceless

[robdl]

3 minutes ago, Charlotte said:

So let me get this straight... Thought/self is always seeking security in its self for itself...  It doesn't matter about the actual thought content as long as it's always thinking/perpetuating.

Thought 'breeds' best from negativity, attachment, identification, seeking etc?

You got it.  You got the concept of it I'm pointing to.  But thought-self will seek security in this concept, as a form of knowledge -- to perpuate itself.  See the utter subtlety of this?  It must be seen for oneself directly, as a fact, wholly.