Where on the Scale are Militant Vegans?

[intrastellar]

Militant veganism, as well as many "social justice warrior" / radical feminist-types seem actually blue to me. They are absolutistic in their believes, not relativistic.

They just have another "higher truth"  than our typical blue conservatives. Their higher truth doesn't come out of the bible or from tradition or God, but from the "real green" people/values. They may sense that there is some truth to those green values (just like the religious blue sense that there is some truth to spirituality /god / the teachings in the bible), but they don't fully understand it and it's ramifications.

You could say militant vegans are blue disguising as green, as are "social justice warriors" or radical feminists. The values they fight for are green, but they act in a blue way.

 

That's at least how I understand it - what do you guys think about that?

 

[Leo Gura]

@intrastellar They are relativistic absolutely, not relativistically 

Careful not to let your own Spiral level cloud your vision

Green has not yet awoken to Yellow. If it did, we'd be calling it Yellow instead of Green

[Joseph Maynor]

23 minutes ago, intrastellar said:

Militant veganism, as well as many "social justice warrior" / radical feminist-types seem actually blue to me. They are absolutistic in their believes, not relativistic.

They just have another "higher truth"  than our typical blue conservatives. Their higher truth doesn't come out of the bible or from tradition or God, but from the "real green" people/values. They may sense that there is some truth to those green values (just like the religious blue sense that there is some truth to spirituality /god / the teachings in the bible), but they don't fully understand it and it's ramifications.

You could say militant vegans are blue disguising as green, as are "social justice warriors" or radical feminists. The values they fight for are green, but they act in a blue way.

 

That's at least how I understand it - what do you guys think about that?

 

Green is ideological like Blue is.  That’s why they fight so much.  They both cling to the Paradigm of Morality.

Edited June 28, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[intrastellar]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@intrastellar They are relativistic absolutely, not relativistically 

Careful not to let your own Spiral level cloud your vision

Green has not yet awoken to Yellow. If it did, we'd be calling it Yellow instead of Green

On what point in what I wrote was my own Spiral level (whatever that may be) clouding my vision?  I'm curious. 

Also it would be helpfull to hear some sort of clarification of your point instead of just saying "thats the way it is".

 

[Leo Gura]

@intrastellar Awaken to Green and see. You cannot get to Green through logic. Takes heart.

[intrastellar]

7 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Green is ideological like Blue is.  That’s why they fight so much.  They both cling to the Paradigm of Morality.

Yeah but is it really green and blue that are fighting or may it acually be two different manifestations of blue that are fighting? Why are you (in your eyes) more developed, just because you're following a different dogma? It's just different content.

[intrastellar]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@intrastellar Awaken to Green and see. You cannot get to Green through logic. Takes heart.

On what ground are you assuming my level? Seriously - your comments here don't help at all figuring out where I might be wrong (if that's the case). 

It takes heart? Yeah green may be much more about the heart than orange, but as is blue. That's my point.  The difference is that green is about equality and blue more about "us vs. them". Yes, veganism as an idea is about equality. But we're talking about radical, militant veganism here. And that sounds more like us (vegans) vs. them (non vegans).  

[Sea]

It's not so much the ideas of green I have a problem with, I can see where they are coming from with many of their points. It's their methods. Various green groups seem to be out of control, they're prepared to use as much violence as they can get away with to advance their agenda. Even if their agenda has some merit, the use of violence turns me off so much. However, someone like Bill Gates for example I can fully resonate with (from what I've seen).

[mostly harmless]

How about someone who was vegan because of a moral conviction, then changes perspective but stays vegan for reasons of health, habit, taste, being disgusted of eating cadavers... ?

Animals in agriculture are bred and fed only for producing something for humans. Humans end their lives and that's not ideal from the animal's perspective. Yet, without benefit for humans, they would not live at all. If it was possible to ask an animal's soul before birth wether they want to be born, live for a while at least and then be killed, or not live at all, would it agree? If I would ask you if you would rather watch 75% of a movie and never see the end or not watch the movie at all, then it's obvious. But life is valuable, no matter how long. Say you would win 10,000 USD in the lottery. That's not a jackpot. But it's not worth nothing. So, if someone changed their perspective in this way, staying vegan (for other reasons) or not staying vegan, would that have implications of the development stage according to Spiral Dynamics?

 

 

Edited June 28, 2018 by mostly harmless