Spiral Dynamics Stage Orange Examples Mega-Thread

[Leo Gura]

@Rilles You don't have to go that far back:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/09/26/russian-cannibal-couple-may-have-drugged-killed-and-eaten-as-many-as-30-people-police-say/

[CreamCat]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Rilles You don't have to go that far back:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/09/26/russian-cannibal-couple-may-have-drugged-killed-and-eaten-as-many-as-30-people-police-say/

They weren't starving. Were they doing it for fun? I guess they are psychopaths. From pure economic perspective, it would be cheaper to just buy food than to murder and eat people. So, it was not done for economic reasons or out of hunger.

I heard psychopaths do not feel disgust when they see dismembered body parts.

Edited December 18, 2018 by CreamCat

[now is forever]

@CreamCat i‘m not sure if this example fits so well to talk about stage orange ideology canibalism. reasoning of canibalism and word canibalism might have some similarities but it can get kind of tasteless - i would still prefer the fruit then.

but if you want: what’s the difference between psychopathic canibalism and stage beige regress.

[Leo Gura]

38 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

I heard psychopaths do not feel disgust when they see dismembered body parts.

In other words, they behave just like humans do towards fruit and animals.

Disgust is an ego survival mechanism.

[CreamCat]

What I wanted to say was that those psychopaths were not eating people in order to meet their survival needs. Instead, eating human is bad for their survival because they have to not get caught.

Pieter Hintjens wrote about this phenomenon. Some psychopaths have broken brains and do things that harm their long-term survival in order to have fun(i.e. satiate their predator instincts) at the moment. Those psychopaths might have brain damage. The damage could be genetic or physical. Hit a psychopath's head hard to incur brain damage, and the psychopath might become a clumsy serial killer who gets caught very soon.

I think it is related to the brain parts involved in impulse control such as prefrontal cortex.

Edited December 18, 2018 by CreamCat

[now is forever]

1 hour ago, CreamCat said:

What I wanted to say was that those psychopaths were not eating people in order to meet their survival needs. Instead, eating human is bad for their survival because they have to not get caught.

Pieter Hintjens wrote about this phenomenon. Some psychopaths have broken brains and do things that harm their long-term survival in order to have fun(i.e. satiate their predator instincts) at the moment. Those psychopaths might have brain damage. The damage could be genetic or physical. Hit a psychopath's head hard to incur brain damage, and the psychopath might become a clumsy serial killer who gets caught very soon.

one of my psychology profs said once: never use the word schizophrenic to swear at someone, i guess by all aversion against political correctness, i should add canibalist and psychopath to the list of words to use with care.

there is a difference between pathology and regress and fruit. a difference between content and context.

and if we are not careful we just turn out to be animals.

Edited December 18, 2018 by now is forever

[Annoynymous]

@Leo Gura  lol you can be very sarcastic yet true man! 

[lmfao]

@Outer I like libertarianism but I just feel that taking it to its extreme in implementation in society wouldn't succeed, I think Leo articulated it well. I personally think that voluntaryism is a nice ideal, but maybe government is a necessary evil. The ideal government probably has some conservativism there, liberalism here, a pinch of authoritarianism, a dash of libertarianism and etc. For a long time I have and still do resonate with libertarianism, but it just seems extremely unrealistic.

To paraphrase something I heard from Stefan Molyneux "At the core of every law is a gun pointing at your head telling you to comply", and whilst that is an emotionally compelling reason to hate government, I think it's something to accept. 

 

Edited December 18, 2018 by lmfao

[Outer]

Just now, lmfao said:

@Outer I like libertarianism but I just feel that taking it to its extreme in implementation in society wouldn't succeed, I think Leo articulated it well. I personally think that voluntaryism is a nice ideal, but maybe government is a necessary evil. Some conservativism there, liberalism here, a pinch of authoritarianism, a dash of libertarianism.

Voluntaryism is libertarianism as I see it. Either on the left or on the right. Further down.

Mine

https://www.politicalcompass.org

 

[lmfao]

@Outer Just took it

LET THE POLITICAL JIHAD ENSUE. 

I agree with you that libertarianism is just voluntary ism. 

 

Please don't purge my dualistic egotistical ass Leo, I'm sorry for posting political compass ? 

Edited December 18, 2018 by lmfao

[now is forever]

@lmfao why use squares anyways? why squeeze the landscape into squares, while we already arrived at circles/spirals? and are you sure the names of the variables are the correct ones?

Edited December 18, 2018 by now is forever

[lmfao]

@now is forever Good question, politics probably does go deeper than that two dimensional compass.

[now is forever]

 and guys - i did that test, i‘m a little disappointed in you... but i won‘t say where i stand 

Edited December 18, 2018 by now is forever

[CreamCat]

10 hours ago, now is forever said:

one of my psychology profs said once: never use the word schizophrenic to swear at someone, i guess by all aversion against political correctness, i should add canibalist and psychopath to the list of words to use with care.

there is a difference between pathology and regress and fruit. a difference between content and context.

and if we are not careful we just turn out to be animals.

You're right. Calling a psychopath a psychopath is a bad idea. The psychopath will use group politics to launch a witch hunt against you and label you as a psychopath, changing the meaning of psychopath as a result. If you tried to purge a psychopath out of a company, the psychopath would label you as a psychopath and falsely accuse you of all the things the psychopath did.

You are underestimating psychopaths. Psychopaths do not care whether you feel compassion toward them. You are just a food to them.

What you want to do is to collect evidences and present people with object evidences instead of calling a psychopath a psychopath. People will come to their own conclusions. A psychopath cannot wish evidences away.

Edited December 18, 2018 by CreamCat

[lmfao]

@CreamCat You seem quite interested in the area of psychopathy. Have you read what self proclaimed psychopaths say about themselves online in places like Quora? https://www.quora.com/topic/Psychopathy-and-Psychopaths 

It appears that psychopaths are born the way they are and that isnt their fault, but they are as far as one can be in wanting sympathy for that fact. Because from what I've read of what self proclaimed psychopaths say, their emotional dial is muted in sadness and anxiety in combination with being muted in empathy. 

I find this answer to the question "What is the definition of a psychopath" quite interesting. https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-definition-of-a-psychopath/answers/51259476

Quote

Psychopathy is a variant brain structure that is coded genetically. The brain structure changes and the genetics are listed below.

Amygdala

Location: Studies have revealed that the amygdala is not a homogeneous structure and can be differentiated into approximately 13 nuclei. Although the functional specificity of the nuclei in the human amygdala remains unclear, considerable evidence from animal studies suggests that several nuclei of the amygdala are involved in the processing of emotion. For example seminal research demonstrated that monkeys with damaged amygdalas have been shown to lack fear cue processing, and attempt to pick up live cobras.

Function: Significant correlations were found between reduced amygdala volumes and increased total and facet psychopathy scores, with correlations strongest for the affective and interpersonal facets of psychopathy.

Psychopath Phenology: Individuals with psychopathy showed significant bilateral volume reductions in the amygdala compared with controls (left, 17.1%; right, 18.9%). Surface deformations were localized in regions in the approximate vicinity of the basolateral, lateral, cortical, and central nuclei of the amygdala.

This article introduces a novel hypothesis regarding amygdala function in psychopathy. The first part of this article introduces the concept of psychopathy and describes the main cognitive and affective impairments demonstrated by this population; that is, a deficit in fear-recognition, lower conditioned fear responses and poor performance in passive avoidance, and response-reversal learning tasks. Evidence for amygdala dysfunction in psychopathy is considered with regard to these deficits; however, the idea of unified amygdala function is untenable. A model of differential amygdala activation in which the basolateral amygdala (BLA) is underactive while the activity of the central amygdala (CeA) is of average to above average levels is proposed to provide a more accurate and up-to-date account for the specific cognitive and emotional deficits found in psychopathy. In addition, the model provides a mechanism by which attentional-based models and emotion-based models of psychopathy can coexist. Data to support the differential amygdala activation model are provided from studies from both human and animal research. Supporting evidence concerning some of the neurochemicals implicated in psychopathy is then reviewed. Implications of the model and areas of future research are discussed. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2012 APA, all rights reserved).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22800411

Insula

Location: Located deep in the cerebral cortex.

Function: Processing of disgust cues is not believed to rely upon amygdala; rather the relevant circuitry is thought to be the anterior insular cortex. The insula exhibits higher activity when neurotypicals make decisions and difficult personal moral dilemmas that they consider as repugnant acts.

Psychopath Phenology: Hypofunctioning in psychopathy.

Nucleus Accumbens

Location: In the basal forebrain rostral to the preoptic area of the hypothalamus.

Function: Plays a central role in the reward circuit. Its operation is based chiefly on two essential neurotransmitters: dopamine (promotes desire), and serotonin (satiety and inhibition).

Psychopath Phenology: The volume of the nucleus accumbens was 13% smaller in psychopathy. The atypical morphology consisted of predominant anterior hypotrophy bilaterally.

Orbitofrontal Cortex

Location: The part of the prefrontal cortex that is positioned directly over the orbits or eye sockets. It is located at the base of the frontal lobe.

Function: Social interactions, inhibition of impulsive behavior, ethics, morality, reward and punishment, regret, and projection of future outcomes based on implied expectations of planned near term actions. Involved in the regulation of many social functions, which include ethics and morality.

Psychopath Phenology: Lower activity in psychopathy.

Note: The terms Orbitofrontal Cortex and Prefrontal Cortex in research are sometimes used interchangeably, and at other times, ‘ventromedial prefrontal cortex’ is used to describe a broad area in the lower (ventral) central (medial) region of the prefrontal cortex, of which the medial orbitofrontal cortex constitutes the lowermost part.

Ventromedial Prefrontal Cortex (Lower)

Location: The frontal lobe, located at the front of the brain, is one of the four major lobes of the cerebral cortex.

Function: The frontal lobe contains most of the dopamine-sensitive neurons in the cerebral cortex. The dopamine system is associated with reward, short term memory, planning and motivation. The function of the frontal lobe involves the ability to project future consequences resulting from current actions, the choice between good and bad actions (or better and best) (also known as conscience), the override and suppression of socially unacceptable responses, and the determination of similarities and differences between things or events. The vmPFC is critical in regulating emotion, threats, decision-making and social behavior. Furthermore, the vmPFC also plays an important part in integrating longer non-task-based memories stored across the brain. These are often memories associated with emotions derived from input from the brain’s limbic system. The frontal lobe modifies those emotions to generally fit socially acceptable norms. It is known as the ethics and morality section of the brain.

Genetics

Of the genes associated with psychopathy, MAOA-L is the most well-known and was among the first evidence that the variant MAOA-L interacts with childhood maltreatment to modulate antisocial tendencies (Caspi et al, 2002). “Specifically, severely maltreated participants carrying the low-activity allele of the MAOA gene displayed the highest scores in disposition toward violence and antisocial personality disorder scores, and demonstrated the greatest proportions of adolescent conduct disorder and convictions due to violent behavior.” (Buades-Rotger & Gallardo-Pujol, 2014). Recent research suggests that genetic vulnerability to violence conferred by the low-activity allele of MAOA-L variant may only become evident in the presence of environmental triggers of maltreatment. In favorable conditions, genetic predisposition alone may be of little consequence for behavior.

Gene & Their Associated SNPs (alphabetical order)

5-HTTLPR (serotonin transporter gene)

SNP: rs25531 (G;G) The long allele of the serotonin transporter gene is a potential risk factor for psychopathy. It is associated with less pain sensitivity.

ARL6IP6 (ADP-ribosylation-like factor 6 interacting protein 6 )

Associated with autistic psychopathy (form of autism spectrum disorder that is less severe than other forms, characterized by difficulty with social interaction and communication and by repetitive behavior or restricted interests) in childhood.

SNP rs11682518

DRD2 and DRD4

Positively correlated with a continuously coded psychopathic personality traits scale.

HTR1B (Serotonin 1B Receptor Gene)Serotonin 1B Receptor Gene (HTR1B)

Methylation as a Risk Factor for Callous-Unemotional Traits in Antisocial Boys. One neurochemical system that has been implicated both theoretically and empirically in CU traits and psychopathy is the serotonin system. For example, recent research identified an association between SNPs in the genes encoding serotonin receptor 2A (HTR2A) and serotonin receptor 1B (HTR1B) as well as CU traits in children with antisocial behaviour problems.

HTR1B is of particular interest because it has been found to be linked with behaviors and characteristics commonly associated with CU traits. Most notable are the animal studies which have demonstrated that mice without the serotonin 1B receptor gene show significantly elevated levels of aggression and lower levels of anxiety; both of which are typically associated with psychopathy. Studies in humans have also found an association between HTR1B and impulsive aggression, suggesting that serotonin 1B receptors may be involved in the control of aggression and impulsivity in humans.

SNP rs11568817 (T;T)

Associated with traits linked with ‘psychopathy’ including alcohol dependence, self-reported anger and hostility in young men, and autism spectrum disorder which is characterized by deficits in empathy that overlap those found in people with high CU traits. However, as psychopaths have been shown to be immune to dependence on addictive substances, it is unclear whether this gene is present in psychopathy, or if it may be a genetic marker for ASPD, which does have significant issues with substance dependence.

HTR2A (serotonin receptor 2A)

Provoked aggression associated with primary psychopathy traits. Hostility, Anger and Physical Aggression—but not verbal aggression—were associated with this gene, but only for provoked incidents.

SNP rs7322347 (T;T)

MAOA-L (Monoamine oxidase A)

“MAO-A has been named the ‘warrior gene’, and also more unfavourably the ‘psycho gene’. The gene is a variation of a gene on the X chromosome and therefore inherited from your mother. Females have two X chromosomes and males have an X and a Y chromosome. Mothers always pass an X chromosome on to their children. While if a father passes on his X chromosome (leading to a pair of X chromosomes and a female offspring) or his Y chromosome (leading to one X and one Y chromosomes and a male offspring).
This variation occurs in the X chromosome gene that produces monoamine oxidase A (MAOA), an enzyme in the brain that breaks down the neurotransmitters such as noradrenaline, adrenaline, serotonin, and dopamine.
People with the low-activity MAO-A gene (2R, 3R) are overall more prone to violence, impulsiveness and aggression. Specifically, when people with the MAOA-L feel very provoked or socially isolated their aggression will come out. Again, from an evolutionary perspective, this makes sense; a warrior needs to respond to threat, rather than act in a chaotic manner. Research demonstrates that low-activity MAO-A people are more likely to take revenge for someone who does something to leave them in a bad situation; however they do not act on small misdeeds.

Those with MAOA-L also showed hyperresponsiveness of the amygdala during tasks such as copying facial expressions. This accounts for an increased ability in this group to recognize emotions and also mimic them (the psychopathic mask).”

What are the effects of having MAO-A? Scientists believe it leads to impulsive behavior (such as as hypersexuality), sleep disorders, mood swings, and violent tendencies.

SNP: rs909525: Warrior; M: C= 3 allele; F: CC= 3 allele

SNP: rs12551906(G;G)

SNP: rs10865864 (G;G)

SNP: rs151997 (T;T)

OXTR (oxytocin receptor gene)

Polymorphisms in the oxytocin receptor gene are associated with the development of psychopathy. Evidence suggests that epigenetic changes in the OXT receptor gene (OXTR) are associated with lower circulating OXT and social–cognitive difficulties. Oxytocin promotes emotional and cognitive aspects of empathy; however increasing oxytocin can have the effect of increasing aggression.

SNP: rs53576 (A;A) Associated with lack of empathy.

SNP: rs2254298 (A;A) Smaller amygdala volume, both right and left sides.

SNP: rs1042778(T;T) Polymorphisms in the oxytocin receptor gene are associated with the development of psychopathy.

SNP: rs237887 (A;A) Lower emotional empathy.

SNP: rs4686302 (T;T) Lower emotional empathy.

Other Top Potential SNPs: rs124111132; rs7531603; rs2514788; rs4383690; rs6846114; rs2376016; rs2311846; rs11088618; rs41516949; rs7640807; rs1490666; rs293844; rs4241597; 6446569; rs1441990; rs1893815; rs11637779; rs10859716; rs1785633; rs4479686; rs10050093; rs12647756; rs1345959; rs13064369; rs8059321; rs6560704

 

For a greater understanding of psychopathy please follow the link below 

https://awpsychopathyinformation.quora.com/The-most-recent-information-about-the-genetics-and-brain-structure-of-psychopathy

 

 

Im about to goi off on a tangent. In regards to monoamine oxidase A, I remember reading an article https://mad.science.blog/2018/07/12/serotonism/ which essentially stated that theres a hypothesis that groups of people which have faced oppression and subjugation (on a large enough scale to have an effect, im assuming) will select for genes which code for low MAO-A. 

Quote

 African American males have the gene twice as frequently as Caucasians in America. There is also evidence that the Jewish population has increased frequency of the warrior gene. The fact that African Americans and Jewish populations underwent ancestral Slavery and The Holocaust respectively seems to indicate that there is some evidence that populations put under horrible conditions of subordination will lead to an increase of this gene, likely as a genetic mechanism for self-defense.

 

[Leo Gura]

Okay, let's not derail this thread any more with political debate. You can start a new thread to discuss libertarianism, etc.

[aahmed124]

Here is a beautiful example of a blue FBI agent meeting an orange stock broker. 

It is interesting to note how the stock broker manipulates the FBI agent into thinking they are on the same side when he shows 'respect' to how 'hard-working the FBI agent is.' 

The mention of the low salary shows how orange looks down on unsuccessful people with no money, not to mention the bout of anger at the end! Classic. 

 

[aahmed124]

 

[aahmed124]

The main character of this UK tv show is a great example of how stage orange thinks.

 

[aahmed124]