Identity is stopping you from finding truth

[metwinn]

Scientists like to pretend that they care about truth when in actuality all they care about is protecting the idea of science itself and strengthening its collective ego. 90% of non religious people from western society take science to be absolute truth and anything that isn't covered in the realm of science to be mystical and wishy washy. But if there did lie a truth that was not talked about within the realm of science (which there is) then it could not be taken for truth anyway because they say it has nothing to do with science. Science has nothing to do with truth it's just another collective ego. Just the same as atheism and even religions if you are talking about them nowadays in the west (or what's left of them). People pretend they care about the truth even to them selves and don't see that the only thing stopping them from seeing it is their own identity. If you choose to become a scientist it immediately adds to your identity and you start to call yourself mark the scientist, the rationalist, the logical man etc, it's not about truth more than a way of adding to your own self identity and following the beliefs that you believe that your own collective ego has told was good for you.

As a society if we really do want to search for truth we must stop the idea that we all belong to very particular collective identities and we must stop letting those collective identities we have chose for ourself dictate what we are aloud to say, think and believe.

We need to think freely. There is nothing free about growing up in a family that forces you to believe what they believe. Or working in an as they claim "truth based" environment but really if you try to talk about anything that isn't covered in the realm of science you are shunned by your peers.

[cetus]

35 minutes ago, metwinn said:

If you choose to become a scientist it immediately adds to your identity and you start to call yourself mark the scientist, the rationalist, the logical man etc, it's not about truth more than a way of adding to your own self identity and following the beliefs that you believe that your own collective ego has told was good for you.

Not always. David Bohm for instance didn't fit that mold. But he was mostly shunned by the collective physics community for that. Have you seen Leo's vid on science yet? It's a good one!

[metwinn]

@cetus56 Yeah I have it's one of my favourites I would say. I'm not familiar with David Bohm why was he shunned by the physics community?

[cetus]

@metwinn Mostly b-c he had a simple approach to reality based on wholeness and fragmentation. The implicate-explicate order he called it. His holographic model of the universe wasn't well received either by the science community. They'll catch up someday.

[Nahm]

@metwinn Also true, most of the population has completely shunned science and are now assessing only the giver of the information rather than the information. 

@cetus56 That story sounds very familiar....?

[metwinn]

@cetus56 we can only hope.

[Telepresent]

On 24/06/2018 at 0:58 AM, metwinn said:

Scientists like to pretend that they care about truth when in actuality all they care about is protecting the idea of science itself and strengthening its collective ego.

Either that or they believe that the scientific method is the best and most accurate method of discovering truth.  Do you know they are pretending? Can you read their minds? I would imagine most would not recognise the statement "protecting the idea of science ourself and strengthening its collective ego" as having any meaning it validity. Not to say that that's not happening, but to assert that their motives are a pretense seems a little judgemental 

[molosku]

On 24.6.2018 at 1:58 AM, metwinn said:

90% of non religious people from western society take science to be absolute truth and anything that isn't covered in the realm of science to be mystical and wishy washy.

90%? I don't think so. I find that most intelligent and open minded folk who don't know about non-duality recognize the limits of science to a degree and think that things like death, life, existence, consciousness and stuff like that belongs to the realm of "too large for a human to fathhom". If you dont know about something, it's not ignorance, it's not knowing. They might think that science "will find eventually the reason for *insert mystical thing* in time", but that is not necessarily dogma, more like rationality, and who can blame them? Science is just the only reasonable option left, because religion is not hip anymore in that sense.

People who don't care about the "higher" things of life, when asked refer to science simply because they have not given much thought for it. You might call them ignorant, but yeah who does that help

 

On 24.6.2018 at 1:58 AM, metwinn said:

People pretend they care about the truth even to them selves and don't see that the only thing stopping them from seeing it is their own identity.

No, people care about what they care about. Most people hold the reasonable belief of "there are no absolute truths". They picked up a (western) philosophy book once, realized it's hard, thought about some things here and there, and came to the conclusion that stuff probably is never black and white and you can never really know much about the world, other what science can teach us.

On 24.6.2018 at 1:58 AM, metwinn said:

There is nothing free about growing up in a family that forces you to believe what they believe.

Well that's quite obvious, for most people that is not the case. Society and beliefs are much discussed here and in Leos videos, so I wont ramble about it here. For most people, they just suck beliefs like a sponge without knowing it and form their metaphysical beliefs and assumptions from there, call it "close enough" and live their lives without too much further though. What could you do in that situation if you don't know about non-dualism? You can pick up either a philosophy or a physics book. Most people probably intuit that the physics route will lead to more physics and philosophy will lead to more philosophy and that's quite true. If neither is you interest, well, you are in a dead end.

I personally stumbled upon non-dualism not firstly because any noble quest for truth, but happiness. I believe this is the case for most of self actualizers on this forum.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I get the sense from your post that you feel that people are just dumb for not knowing about non-dualism, like that everyone is on an egoic quest for finding a personal god in science. There are many developments going on that is opening minds for anti-scientific explanation for things. Netfilix, with a growing userbase of over 120 000 000 users has a often featured and suggested documentary about DMT, for example. I don't find that insignificant. That is just one example, but consciousness is steadily finding it's way into pop culture in a serious way, and that train cant be stopped.

 

Ps. Identity is not a problem, its a feature. You subtly inflated and built upon your ego by making this post, and precicely because its a feature im not judging you. 

Edited June 25, 2018 by molosku

[metwinn]

@Telepresent Maybe I put it wrong. What I mean is to put it in simple terms, everyone thinks they know the "right way" the truth and because none of the collective ego groups admit that they don't know they are incapable of finding it.

[metwinn]

@molosku no not at all am I implying that people are dumb and ignorant. What I am trying to say here is that because people are so sure of knowing truth they're afraid of opening themselves up enough to look for it because it can demenish their sense of self to even admit that they don't know the truth. You cannot simply pickup a book about non dualism if you are so adamant that you know the truth in the first place. You identify with the beliefs that you currently have and are therefore afraid to look anywhere else for them. Your right %90 is abit high ? But you would be surprised. I find that actually most people are not open minded enough to accept that that they don't know the truth and I think that this is why a lot of major religions have become corrupt over the years.

Edited June 27, 2018 by metwinn