Does the brain create reality?

[tentacion]

All experiences are through chemical change, without any exception. Whether you take LSD or you meditate, in both ways the brain goes through chemical change.

So does it follow then that the brain is what creates reality? Because without change in the brain you will not see reality differently. It is only when there is change in brain chemistry. There are of course other possibilities. I'm interested in your opinion.

[egoeimai]

Awareness is not located in the brain. Imo.

(There are studies that found nothing in there. Although, the "studies" are ego driven as well,so they're not the truth. Just saying.)

[Arkandeus]

as soon as a single person takes mushroom or lsd the entire atmosphere changes, every other person who didnt take anything is affected

if you ever manage to be around a friend who's tripping with shroomz or dmt or lsd you will feel in it in your whole body, in your toes,you will be pulled,this doesnt happen in one brain, these are electric vibrations, we are all energetic beings

and its seriously not that hard to figure out that shit is actually happening, it doesnt take much research or experimentation

take a few psychedelics, observe the effects, be around people who take a psychedelics while you are sober, observe the effects

 

 scientific research on psychedelics would decimate civilization as we know it and propel us ino an entirely different civilization

you cannot do research on psychedelics and remain neutral, any such research will permanently alter the people who research it, the truth of life is like pandora's box, once opened its out

it doesnt fit into the limiting boundaries of empirical science, it doesnt fit into political structures,

there is no "research" and "researcher", you touch psychedelics and you're deeply involved, as far as the deepest atom of your cells that compromise your anus

which is why science and politics stay away from psychedelics for now, the day will come though

Edited June 23, 2018 by Arkandeus

[Prabhaker]

1 hour ago, tentacion said:

Whether you take LSD or you meditate, in both ways the brain goes through chemical change.

Ram Dass (born Richard Alpert; April 6, 1931) is an American spiritual teacher, former academic and clinical psychologist.

In 1961, Alpert devoted himself in experimentation with and intensive research to the potentially therapeutic effects of hallucinogenic drugs such as psilocybin, LSD-25, and other psychedelic chemicals.

Ram Dass reflects on conscientiously dosing Maharaji (Neem Karoli Baba) with LSD

In 1967 when I first came to India, I brought with me a supply of LSD, hoping to find someone who might understand more about these substances than we did in the West.

When I had met Maharajji (Neem Karoli Baba), after some days the thought had crossed my mind that he would be a perfect person to ask. The next day after having that thought, I was called to him and he asked me immediately, “Do you have a question?”

Of course, being before him was such a powerful experience that I had completely forgotten the question I had had in my mind the night before. So I looked stupid and said, “No, Maharajji, I have no question.”He appeared irritated and said, “Where is the medicine?”

I was confused but Bhagavan Dass suggested, ” Maybe he means the LSD.” I asked and Maharajji nodded. The bottle of LSD was in the car and I was sent to fetch it. When I returned I emptied the vial of pills into my hand. In addition to the LSD there were a number of other pills for this and that–diarrhea, fever, a sleeping pill, and so forth. He asked about each of these.

He asked if they gave powers. I didn’t understand at the time and thought that by “powers” perhaps he meant physical strength. I said, “No.” Later, of course, I came to understand that the word he had used, “siddhis,” means psychic powers. Then he held out his hand for the LSD. I put one pill on his palm. Each of these pills was about three hundred micrograms of very pure LSD–a solid dose for an adult. He beckoned for more, so I put a second pill in his hand–six hundred micrograms. Again he beckoned and I added yet another, making the total dosage nine hundred micrograms–certainly not a dose for beginners. Then he threw all the pills into his mouth. My reaction was one of shock mixed with fascination of a social scientist eager to see what would happen.

He allowed me to stay for an hour– and nothing happened. Nothing whatsoever.

He just laughed at me.

The whole thing had happened very fast and unexpectedly. When I returned to the United States in 1968 I told many people about this acid feat. But there had remained in me a gnawing doubt that perhaps he had been putting me on and had thrown the pills over his shoulder or palmed them, because I hadn’t actually seen them go into his mouth.

Three years later, when I was back in India, he asked me one day, “Did you give me medicine when you were in India last time?”

“Yes.”

“Did I take it?” he asked. (Ah, there was my doubt made manifest!)

“I think you did.”

“What happened?

“Nothing.”

“Oh! Jao!” and he sent me off for the evening.

The next morning I was called over to the porch in front of his room, where he sat in the mornings on a tucket. He asked, “Have you got any more of that medicine?”

It just so happened that I was carrying a small supply of LSD for “just in case,” and this was obviously it. “Yes.”

“Get it,” he said.

So I did. In the bottle were five pills of three hundred micrograms each. One of the pills was broken. I placed them on my palm and held them out to him. He took the four unbroken pills. Then, one by one, very obviously and very deliberately, he placed each one in his mouth and swallowed it– another unspoken thought of mine now answered.

As soon as he had swallowed the last one, he asked, “Can I take water?”

“Yes.”

“Hot or cold?”

“It doesn’t matter.”

He started yelling for water and drank a cup when it was brought.

Then he asked, “How long will it take to act?”

“Anywhere from twenty minutes to an hour.”

He called for an older man, a long -time devotee who had a watch, and Maharajji held the man’s wrist, often pulling it up to him to peer at the watch.

Then he asked,” Will it make me crazy?”

That seemed so bizarre to me that I could only go along with what seemed to be a gag.

So I said, “Probably.”

And then we waited. After some time he pulled the blanket over his face, and when he came out after a moment his eyes were rolling and his mouth was ajar and he looked totally mad. I got upset. What was happening? Had I misjudged his powers? After all, he was an old man (though how old I had no idea), and I had let him take twelve hundred micrograms. Maybe last time he had thrown them away and then he read my mind and was trying to prove to me he could do it, not realizing how strong the “medicine” really was. Guilt and anxiety poured through me. But when I looked at him again he was perfectly normal and looking at the watch.

- Ram Dass

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, tentacion said:

All experiences are through chemical change, without any exception. Whether you take LSD or you meditate, in both ways the brain goes through chemical change.

Just a delusion conceptual story.

No such thing as chemicals, brians, experiences, or self.

You are inside a dream. Wake up!

[White]

@Leo Gura you need to meet people where they are at dude. Jeez 

[Rilles]

@White No such thing as Brians! 

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

brians

teasin

[Leo Gura]

@White No point in feeding materialist BS theories of brians and chemicals. This is one of the most toxic ideas invented by mankind.

[White]

@Leo Gura there is a point. Without our stories and ways of structuring experience we end up in mental insitiuations. You don't want that. People need to evolve slowly at their own pace. Just telling them to wake up is bullying.  Have we collectively learned nothing from spiral dynamics? 

Edited June 23, 2018 by White

[Vipassana]

@White says it how he sees it, it would be bullying if didn't tell people to wake up. With wisdom like that, he can easily be some mastermind in some dungeon manipulating and controlling mankind but he prefers to be the fire alarm. 

Quote

No body likes the fire alarm going off while they're sleeping until after they see the fire, then they say "thank fucking god for that fire alarm"

 

[White]

@Vipassana nobody said don't put the idea of awakening out there. Just do it intelligently and meet folk where they are at. He needs to let the Zen master shtick go, we can't just go around shouting wake up to people as if it's Blue medieval Japan. People don't resonate with that anymore and seeing as this is a materialist based op Leo should respect that level and meet it where it is .

Edited June 23, 2018 by White

[Vipassana]

@White idk i have hard time with sugar quoting also. He cant be more direct than direct but I understand not all will comprehend the arrogance but again he says it how he sees it 

[White]

@Vipassana sugar coating 

sugar-coat

verb

gerund or present participle: sugar-coating

1.

coat (an item of food) with sugar.

"sugar-coated almonds"

2.

make superficially attractive or acceptable.

"you won't see him sugar-coat the truth"

Let's assume you're not referring to frosting cakes and that you tale sugar coating to mean the second definition here. Making things seem attractive.

See, when you get to yellow you understand that these things are not delusions, they are true. Not absolutely true but they still have a utility. Newtonian physics has not been abandoned because of our advances in quantum mechanics. On a certain level objective reality is still true even if at the atomic level there are actually no objects.

So nobody should see orange or blue or any colour as complete delusions. They are true for that mind that is only developed enough to understand it. We can't force people to step into third tier witnessing if they have not developed enough to remain there. Yeah a non dual experience is possible, we all have them, even babies, we enter the non dual state in deep sleep. It's not as important as our psychological development and how we create our maps of reality. 

[Ether]

Brains dont create reality, they just let you access it.

Without a brain, you wouldnt be able to experience everything that the 5 senses have to offer. Its our portal to reality.

If someone shoots in the brains, its the end of their journey in this reality but other people keep on living because of theirs 

[Guest Quanty]

The brain, the focussed attention, the third eye alone, let you create a separate reality from the source if you wish, a hallucination accepted in society, or a survival mechanism in times of despair. It is a radar that can be used to go unnatural or connect with the whole body to see reality as it is. 

 

[Ether]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Just a delusion conceptual story.

No such thing as chemicals, brians, experiences, or self.

You are inside a dream. Wake up!

You mean derealization? THat nothing of this is literally real? Or just a metaphor?

You dont want to go through the first one, its pretty scary

[Prabhaker]

4 hours ago, tentacion said:

Whether you take LSD or you meditate, in both ways the brain goes through chemical change.

Gurdjieff’s whole work consisted of separating the consciousness from the body and making the consciousness such a solid force that the body cannot drag it, that the body becomes only a servant and is not a master. And he was trying many kinds of experiments.

For example, he used to drink alcohol. One cannot imagine such a quantity of alcohol, but he would remain perfectly conscious. No quantity of alcohol was able to make him unconscious.

That is one of the ways of tantra, a method: one has to go on increasing the amount of alcohol and getting attuned to it, but remaining conscious.

Even LSD was not able to disturb consciousness of Neem Karoli Baba as I mentioned in previous post. 

[Ananta]

There are 3 different perspectives one can speak from- Awareness, God, individual apparent person.

1) Awareness/absolute- this is the perspective @Leo Gura seemed to be speaking from where there is nothing "real" happening here from its perspective, all it sees is itself. (Even though awareness has no mind to actually have a perspective)

2) God / Isvara- From this perspective we are only an aspect of God. God being the creator, destroyer and sustainer of the universe- God is the whole cosmos, not a big person in the sky. We (as individuals) are puppets and God is the puppeteer. God (vasanas, gunas, karmas, etc) determine our programming, therefore all is predetermined.

3) The individual/apparent person- From this perspective we are seperate persons with bodies and minds we think are "ours" and have "free" will. It seems the OP's question came from this perspective.

So, if we are discussing from different perspective levels then communication will fail.

 

Edited June 23, 2018 by Anna1

[Nahm]

5 hours ago, tentacion said:

All experiences are through chemical change, without any exception. Whether you take LSD or you meditate, in both ways the brain goes through chemical change.

So does it follow then that the brain is what creates reality? Because without change in the brain you will not see reality differently. It is only when there is change in brain chemistry. There are of course other possibilities. I'm interested in your opinion.

The brain hides reality, not creates it. You create it. 

[Ananta]

6 hours ago, tentacion said:

So does it follow then that the brain is what creates reality? Because without change in the brain you will not see reality differently. It is only when there is change in brain chemistry. There are of course other possibilities. I'm interested in your opinion.

Think of a computer, there is the hardware, the software and electricity that all is needed to make it function. If one of these things is damaged or not working, then the computer won't work.

So, in this example, the hardware of the computer would be the apparent persons body/brain, the software program would be the persons mind (with its god given programming- vasanas, gunas, etc), the electricy..this is awareness- that illumines the entire process and allows it to function. 

All analogies are imperfect and break down eventually. For instance, this one doesnt state that that hardware/software of the computer is also created out of and within awareness.

 

Edited June 23, 2018 by Anna1