What Are Examples Of Stage Yellow People?

[White]

@sarapr read the data. Yellow gets enraged at social injustices. It's mission is to solve the problems that 1st tier couldn't. Not through morality but through understanding how human beings work

[sarapr]

1 minute ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Steve Jobs is at Stage Yellow.  I’m so solid on this.  It’s a no-brainer for me.

You're saying he was yellow cause he was passed green therefore he had no problem with being immoral? 

But it could also be that he was below green? 

[White]

@Joseph Maynor ok.. That's ok

You also think Joe rogan is yellow. So the jury is out.

[White]

@Joseph Maynor when I cite clinical data then I'm not fooling myself or you

Edited June 23, 2018 by White

[White]

@Joseph Maynor

2 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

The first ‘real person’ as you put it is Orange.

Not quite. I stand by my original statement..Everything up to and including orange is constructed from society. Green and onward is a self/other construct. That's why green and above are called "post-conventional" stages. 

Edited June 23, 2018 by White

[stevegan928]

8 hours ago, White said:

But it's not true green - green thinks that all perspectives are equal because all perspectives are relative, therefore no position need be defended, therefore all hierarchies are false. The performative contradiction of green is that it DOES NOT SEE that it's own worldview is a perspective and that it places itself at the top of a hierarchy. Green is the biggest hypocrite in town 

That sounds a lot to me like yellow if you ask me. What's the difference between green and yellow then? Sounds to me like yellow is just green with more self awareness. 

[White]

"The first half of the trajectory – from Symbiotic embeddedness to Achiever independence -- fosters the increasing separation from the newborn’s union with the mother towards the discrete, self-sustaining adult identity with clear boundaries, an self that is capable of making reasoned decisions, postpone gratification and pursue meaningful goals and purposes. It is this self-governing Achiever that is often 
viewed in the modern world as the fully developed “adult.”

The second half of the trajectory – from Pluralist to Unitive -- represents a step-wise deconstruction of the sharp and artificially created boundaries towards an ever deeper identification with all that exists. 
The second half can also be likened to an ongoing individuation towards a more holistic, full-bodied, and integrated self that is fully aware of its interdependence with other systems and one that 
can take a perspective on its fundamental non-separateness. This movement can be usefully described in having two layers.

A) The general systems stages which comprise the first differentiation and integration – from the Individualist-Pluralist to the Strategist stage.

B) The second differentiation and integration – from the Construct-aware to the Unitive stage. The latter two replace Loevinger’s Integrated stage (I6 or E9). It is likely that Loevinger could not conceive of a self-identity with fluid boundaries because it was not part of her psychometric frame of reference. She may also not have discovered this kind of open, non-delineated self-view because it did not occur in her samples. To her, the concept of later stages and ego-transcendence belonged to the “stratosphere” (personal 
communication 1998)."

 

Edited June 23, 2018 by White

[White]

9 minutes ago, stevegan928 said:

That sounds a lot to me like yellow if you ask me. What's the difference between green and yellow then? Sounds to me like yellow is just green with more self awareness. 

No Steve. It's green. Keep reading for a full explanation of what yellow is and how to transition. 

[stevegan928]

8 hours ago, White said:

green thinks that all perspectives are equal because all perspectives are relative, therefore no position need be defended,

green would be considering the perspective of the cow as equal to any other

8 hours ago, White said:

So at it's core veganism is orange but the movement itself is blue. This happens when all movements take off into the mainstream. One of the problems green has created is that we now have a lot of blue centre of gravity trying on pluralistic and scientific ideas. Green says to blue: "you can't be blue, try to think green and you will be ok". Green really is the great evil of our time. 

i have been lead to believe that every stage under yellow is ideological so that would include green and the care bear vegans. you're saying though that green is in fact the first stage to not be ideological but only on a surface level, since it thinks it's "lack of ideology" makes it superior making green as a whole very hypocritical. I thought green was about caring for the world at large. What are some examples of green then if i'm wrong?   

[White]

36 minutes ago, stevegan928 said:

What are some examples of green then if i'm wrong?   

@stevegan928  steve, here is a proper explanation of the green level. 

And here is yellow 

[ValiantSalvatore]

Seems promising:
 

 

[Rilles]

@Joseph Maynor According to the book Wilber is turquoise

[Rilles]

@Joseph Maynor According to the book Wilber is turquoise

[White]

1 hour ago, Rilles said:

@Joseph Maynor According to the book Wilber is turquoise

Watch this video of Ken explain how to pass through a stage. Pay particular attention to when he talks about shadow. Understand that when he talks about the "enlightened dick" he's not "moralizing", he's just calling a spade a spade. 

 

[WaterfallMachine]

16 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Steve Jobs is at Stage Yellow.  I’m so solid on this.  It’s a no-brainer for me.

What traits would make you think he was yellow by the way? I doubt I’m as knowledgable as you in Spiral Dynamics, but I read his entire biography by Walter Isaacson, and he didn’t seem like he even completed his Green development. Sure, he tried alternative practices associated with Green, but it didn’t seem really Green in its core.

He was a brilliant man — a visionary of our age, but people wise, he doesn’t seem to have the patience and compassion of Green. He was overly harsh with his employees, asking for extremely high and sometimes impossible standards — that made much of his workplace hate him. Sure, they respected his strategic intelligence, but they certainly didn’t like him.

A Yellow person would at the least would be able to disagree with his employees without raging against them, but unfortunately Steve Jobs did not. Reading some of his influences on managers in the Harvard Business Magazine, his story encouraged a lot of Orange managers to be unfortunately too harsh on his employees, and this is the result.

Being an innovator does not make you Yellow. The combination of strategy and productivity from Orange and the compassion and acceptance of Green is what makes someone Yellow. And he is not.

Edited June 24, 2018 by WaterfallMachine

[White]

16 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Watch this video

 

@stevegan928

Steve, a nice video from integrals Jeff salzman who attempts to recontextuslize meat consumption through the lens of a 2nd tier moral framework. 

 

[White]

@WaterfallMachine yellow is striving to create the best workplace environments for their employees. They value setting up situations where employees are valued, listened to and their mental and personal welfare is taken into account. Yellow does not regress back to conventional or pre conventional morality. The only difference between green and yellow morality as far as I can see from the data and from studying this subject for the last 10 years is that yellow doesn't anymore see the utility of taking all perspectives as "equally valid". It understands that hierarchies of ideas do exist and are necessary. Therefore yellow takes into consideration what it sees as the most important opinions relevant to the context. For example a green leader would try to make a decision based on an extreme democratic position where he/she asked all of their employees opinions. Yellow would would make a decision based on the opinions of his/her most trusted people.  

[White]

Another aspect of yellow is it's ability to think in a much longer timeframes and much larger and more complex contexts. Yellow leader is now making decisions based on how behaviour affects not only itself or its immediate cultural context, but yellow is considering actions that have an impact on the world at large and for future generations. That's how global a worldview yellow is. Which also makes me wonder about Steve jobs, he didn't really fit into that category. His aim was to corner the global market and design a hardware system that sustained itself by creating software that was only compatible for that operating system. If you buy an iPhone you are tied to only purchasing apple apps. Very clever, very orange, the "best" in his field. But not yellow. Yellow is concerned with being the "most" one can be rather that the best one can be..

[White]

17 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Watch this video

 

@Emerald

Nice video emerald. You're taking about blue/rule role morality from an orange/GREEN perspective that questions social constructs. The mistake youre making is that youre talking conceptually as if you can just stay in the transcendent after disidentifying from blue. You're not talking about enlightenment perse, but are confusing disidentification from our socially constructed self with witnessing awareness. The loss of desire to be a good person is not the end of the road when it comes to development. You can access big mind in blue and orange, but you will still be functioning at those stages for a while until you climb to the next stage and inhabit it fully. Morality is a much more complex issue than being embedded in socially constructed blue.

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, White said:

@Emerald

Nice video emerald. You're taking about blue/rule role morality from an orange/GREEN perspective that questions social constructs. The mistake youre making is that youre talking conceptually as if you can just stay in the transcendent after disidentifying from blue. You're not talking about enlightenment perse, but are confusing disidentification from our socially constructed self with witnessing awareness. The loss of desire to be a good person is not the end of the road when it comes to development. You can access big mind in blue and orange, but you will still be functioning at those stages for a while until you climb to the next stage and inhabit it fully. Morality is a much more complex issue than being embedded in socially constructed blue.

Thank you.  I don't know where I would put this idea on the Spiral Dynamics map. But the main thing I wanted to get across is that morality has an important practical function for the individual and society. But it can also be problematic for the seeker (and the non-seeker too) because the morality structure can hide so much and can contribute to the shadow. So, my advice was to keep the morality structure very very simple while on the path.

Think of a moral as a practical tool for functioning. So, if you have lots of tools, it's going to encumber you and you'll get tripped up with your tools. But if you have one practical tool in the form of the Golden Rule which is simple and flexible and you understand that it's just a tool, it will be easier to just pick it up when you need it and put it back in your tool-belt when you don't. Also, because it's not as complex as having a laundry list of principles, it's easier to dis-identify with it. And you'll be less likely to judge other people for arbitrary reasons. 

But during my experiences of ego transcendence, I didn't really need morals at all. It was just really obvious that I was deeply intertwined with all of reality. So, I didn't have to use the Golden Rule because I didn't have to put myself in anyone else's shoes. I already knew that harm coming to others meant that harm was coming to me. But for seekers who are actively letting go of ego, which is often the motivator for empathetic/compassionate behavior, it is important to keep morality around as a tool to keep from devolving into Zen Devilry. But keeping it simple is optimal. 

Edited June 24, 2018 by Emerald