Blue / Yellow Spiral Dynamics

[White]

@Leo Gura

Leo, is It possible that blue could use yellow concepts to justify their judgements of "right vs. wrong"?

 

[Leo Gura]

Blue doesn't need Yellow concepts. Blue already has a full suite of pre-made judgments that they were indoctrinated with from birth.

Your culture and peer group tells you who the devils are.

Blue has no idea that Yellow is even a thing. Or what a concept is.

The ego-mind justifies itself all the time at all stages.

[How to be wise]

@Leo Gura You said that stage turquoise incorporates non-duality. But according to Ken Wilber, ‘growing up’ is more or less independent from ‘waking up’. In an interview he said that one can be in the highest stage of ‘growing up’ without ever having an enlightenment experience. What are your thoughts on this matter? 

[Leo Gura]

@How to be wise I agree with Ken. Enlightenment is not directly correlated with Spiral Dynamics.

With that said, it becomes easier to awaken as one becomes Yellow and Turquoise. Because the mind becomes more open and the ego becomes less clingy and constricted.

It's very hard for a stage Blue or Orange person to persue enlightenment. Almost impossible.

Enlightenment starts to become more possible at Green.

[Joseph Maynor]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Blue doesn't need Yellow concepts. Blue already has a full suite of pre-made judgments that they were indoctrinated with from birth.

Your culture and peer group tells you who the devils are.

Blue has no idea that Yellow is even a thing. Or what a concept is.

The ego-mind justifies itself all the time at all stages.

Nice post!  You never escape Ego, you just become more aware of it and watch it evolve as you move up the Spiral.  The Ego gets healthier as you move up the Spiral.  That’s why your happiness and fulfillment also increase as you go up the Spiral.  There’s less ‘artificial interference’ as you go up the Spiral.  You become more evolved, more flexible, more authentic, more constructive.

Edited June 23, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[White]

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

You never escape Ego, you just become more aware of it and watch it evolve as you move up the Spiral.  The Ego gets healthier as you move up the Spiral.  That’s why your happiness and fulfillment also increase as you go up the Spiral.  There’s less ‘artificial interference’ as you go up the Spiral.  You become more evolved, more flexible, more authentic, more constructive.

 

[White]

Ego is pure awareness that is deluded by identification with "this" or "that". The higher up the spiral you go the less identification with "this" or "that". When Wilber talks of empty space he's talking about the ego freed from limitation - I am, prior to this or to that. He uses the same definition for ego as Ramana Maharshi. I don't believe that traditional horizontal enligtenment states where the ego "dies" is true enlightenment. I think that's just a state experience in time. Vertical enlightenment more important and that's a transcend and include instead of straight ego death. 

Edited June 23, 2018 by White

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, John Lula said:

@Leo Gura What if both parent are yellow (not asian, lol). Would the kid go straight to yellow too? Since the kid gets indoctrinated with yellowish views.

Not straight to Yellow. The kid still has to learn and integrate the prior stages. But it will certainly be easier with Yellow parents.

It's easier to learn calculus if both your parents are calculus professors. But it still won't be automatic. You'll have to work at it. Calculus is complex stuff which requires a foundation of more basic mathematics.

Reaching stage Yellow requires lots of education, contemplation, and self-reflection. You're probably gonna have to read hundreds of books in your life to get there.

[White]

3 minutes ago, John Lula said:

@Leo Gura What if both parent are yellow (not asian, lol). Would the kid go straight to yellow too? Since the kid gets indoctrinated with yellowish views.

I know I'm not Leo but I can answer, the kid won't go straight to yelllow, it will successfully navigate all stages and inhabit yellow at the end of higher education. It will be less fucked up as a 1st tier child because it has been allowed to transition all the stages and complete them successfully with more even development and no split off sub personalities begging for attention. 

[stevegan928]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@How to be wise I agree with Ken. Enlightenment is not directly correlated with Spiral Dynamics.

With that said, it becomes easier to awaken as one becomes Yellow and Turquoise. Because the mind becomes more open and the ego becomes less clingy and constricted.

It's very hard for a stage Blue or Orange person to persue enlightenment. Almost impossible.

Enlightenment starts to become more possible at Green.

Conversely could one assume it's easier to advance to the next stage when one becomes enlightened? For example lets say someone is at orange when they become enlightened and due to there new relationship to self and other they now have a smooth and easy transition to stage green, and then after that yellow.  

[Leo Gura]

@stevegan928 Probably, although enlightenment also tends blow all models out of the water.

If you ever become deeply enlightened, you will probably outgrow the need for Spiral Dynamics. Not necessarily, but at the deepest levels of consciousness, you are so far beyond the mind that all of these models and teachings will become mere child's toys.

All the concepts I teach are not to be clung to. They are stepping stones to mystical states of consciousness and forms of cosmic intelligence which cannot be spoken.

The things I teach are not a Bible, but a disposable ladder. Where the ladder leads you will not know until you've climbed it.

[electroBeam]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Not straight to Yellow. The kid still has to learn and integrate the prior stages. But it will certainly be easier with Yellow parents.

It's easier to learn calculus if both your parents are calculus professors. But it still won't be automatic. You'll have to work at it. Calculus is complex stuff which requires a foundation of more basic mathematics.

Reaching stage Yellow requires lots of education, contemplation, and self-reflection. You're probably gonna have to read hundreds of books in your life to get there.

Also, if you have stage blue parents, its actually possible to go to stage green or yellow. In a lot of cases your parents don't really determine your stage of development, and a bigger factor of what determines your stage of development is the velocity of your past life.