Which models are good for classifying human behaviour and the human psyche?

[lmfao]

Just wanted to hear your thoughts on some of these models for human psychology, and whether you know of any additional models you find good. I want to hear your thoughts on anything I talk about, and also your thoughts on anything new you can think to tell me. 

Models that I use:

1) MBTI 

I've found it to be good in understanding many parts of myself [INTP here]. MBTI has 4 dimensions of measurement, with each dimension having 2 poles. Your MBTI type is based upon the poles you are closest to. A problem that I have with MBTI is that people who are near the middle of two poles (e.g. Perceiving and judging) will their behaviour less accurately described through MBTI. Everyone is on a sliding scale of traits, and so to put people into one of 16 categories is bound to cause some confusion. 

I've heard the most "educated" proponents of MBTI on YouTube to say that MBTI tells you the "why" of someones behaviour, and not the "what", and this means that people in a given type can express themselves in a wide variety of ways.

Even so with that last paragraph, MBTI has some flaws or it needs to be interpreted with lots of nuance if you want accuracy. 

2) Big Five Aspects Scale 

This is an interesting one. You have five main dimensions of measurements of personality in this model, and each dimension is composed of two dimensions. E.g. Conscientiousness is composed of orderliness and industriousness. 

The model puts people into a percentile rank for each dimension of measurement, which means that your score is inextricably linked to scores of other people. E. G. You can be 1st percentile in agreeableness meaning you are less agreeable than 98/100 people. 

This model acknowledges that everyone is on a spectrum for a myriad of traits, and it tries to make room for the almost infinite number of different trait combinations in humans. 

To understand this, watching Jordan Peterson would be excellent. 

Lecture 14 he starts talking about the model. Lectures 17-21 talk about it as well. There was another lecture which is related to big five but it had too much jargon for me to understand. Maybe you can understand it. 

You can pay for a test made by Jordan Peterson to get a personality profile https://understandmyself.com

3)Spiral Dynamics 

This is the first model I've talked about where consciousness work might directly come into play. Now there's this model, and it's trying to map out "human development" but I'm not sure what exactly this model is all about. 

I'm going to copy and paste what I've written in another topic, talking about what I think about enlightenment and its relationship to spiral dynamics:

It seems to me that your stage isn't necessarily related to the "degree to which you are enlightened" [I'm using quotation marks because I think words and concepts fail in capturing the nature of enlightenment]. Because of this, idk how to view spiral dynamics. 

I say this because it seems completely feasible to me that someone who embodies stage Red could be extremely conscious and enlightened. You could get a non neurotypical person who murders as a hobby but is at the same time, emotionally and psychologically healthy. The same goes for any many other stages.

And a second point I want to mention is that someone in stage (x+1) will not necessarily be more conscious that someone in stage (x). Sure, there might be a correlation between your stage and consciousness level.

But the fact that being in a higher stage doesn't gaurentee that you are of higher consciousness is indicitave of the fact that the foundational criteria used to put someone in a stage is separate from degree of consciousness, or the criteria is based upon on how different degrees of consciousness typically manifest (in contrast to telling you how different degrees of consciousness atypically manifests). 

Edited June 22, 2018 by lmfao

[WaterfallMachine]

I agree with all that. Just wanted to comment there's a lot of depth in MBTI beyond the pop psychology version of it. The more advanced levels of it use something called "cognitive functions", and they're rather complicated to explain in detail here, but it recognizes how people are more on a spectrum than one or another.

The truth is we all have introverted/extroverted, intuitive/sensory, thinking/feeling, and perceiving/judging functions. It's just one is stronger than the other, and is expressed in different ways in a type. In cognitive functions, the opposite preference to your own still has effects on you unique to your type. Growth is often made by developing your opposite preferences and learning from them, so people learn to go beyond the boundaries of what is useful for their type.

Personality Hacker's a good place to learn about it if you're looking for some.

What other models do I like to use? Enneagram is a personality typing that focuses on a person's primary motivations and responses to shame, fear and anger. Each person has a specific type for each of those three emotions -- with one being dominant, one in the middle and one response least used.

Edited June 22, 2018 by WaterfallMachine

[WaterfallMachine]

1 minute ago, Outer said:

I had a thought that Science is the only good model.

For instance, you can measure spiritual progress by measuring the brain.

It'd be pretty amazing if we can measure that progress with the brain. I hope in the future brain scans would be something you can use at home for our own growth purposes.

[White]

@lmfao I'm in the process of writing you a massive reply. But it takes time and I don't want to focus on it constantly. It will be on your oroginal post which we spoke on not even 24 hours ago. 

Edited June 22, 2018 by White

[Guest Quanty]

Waste of time 

[White]

@Outer in light of this there is a good argument that the brain creates consciousness? 

[White]

@Outer is that it? No? No other word? Just... "no"? 

[White]

@lmfao let me just say this now and maybe you can create an answer from this. Red can have a non dual state experience, but it's not going to stick because there just isn't enough development. All people through all points in life have non dual experiences. We all have them when we go to sleep at night . The trick is to realise it permanently in the waking state.  But even then different awakened people are at different stages, so your classic version of enlightenment isn't the full story, there are vertical levels to consider. 

Edited June 22, 2018 by White

[Rilles]

@White

I speculate that if Red has a spiritual experience they are very likely to become religious, this can  bring  them up towards Blue. Think of the cliched drug addict on the street becomes a born-again.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Rilles

[White]

1 minute ago, Rilles said:

@White

I speculate that if Red has a spiritual experience they are very likely to become religious, hence making them Blue. Think of the cliched drug addict on the street becomes a born-again.

You hit the nail on the head . It's how a person interprets the experience after they come out of it. Red won't have enough presence to understand that what he imagined was God was his own self, so will transcend into blue and live that stage for a while. Nice, thanks for that

[Faceless]

If one lives a life of identifying, categorizing, labeling, measuring, and spends time caught in the trap of classification, one will continue to be bound by experience. All of the above movements of thought manifest themselves as and in experience.

If one has not ceased to experience, one remains slave to such limitation, and nondual perception can never be. 

Edited June 22, 2018 by Faceless

[lmfao]

1 hour ago, Quanty said:

Waste of time 

@Quanty Indeed it is. But it is not the case that most questions (on this forum) are a waste of time?

[lmfao]

@Faceless Yeah I look at these models for fun. Models aren't useful for enlightenment. True personal development requires closing your mouth and sharpening your awareness.

[Faceless]

13 minutes ago, lmfao said:

Models aren't useful for enlightenment

I see

But is the pursuit for enlightenment a reaction and response to these movements of identificaton, categorizing, labeling, measuring, and classification? 

Edited June 22, 2018 by Faceless

[Guest Quanty]

2 hours ago, lmfao said:

@Quanty Indeed it is. But it is not the case that most questions (on this forum) are a waste of time?

If some encounter silver and gold probably not.