Fear of losing myself

[Ananta]

3 minutes ago, Faceless said:

until that movement of attatchment ends I would say that is still an unanswered question for you. 

How to remove attachment then, without effort. I'm talking about the deep, ground in attachment. Like a mother and child, husband and wife, etc. Not the easy surface stuff.

 

[Ananta]

1 minute ago, Faceless said:

@Anna1

what I mean is it can not be answered by anyone but you. 

What are we talking about? Lol

What question?

 

[Faceless]

15 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

If you have even an ounce of attachment left and so there is some ioda of a doer there, then yes, it requires effort to remove.

The question of whether or not it requires effort or not. 

[Ananta]

Just now, Faceless said:

The question of whether or not it requires effort or not. 

If what requires effort? Attachment? No, none...it happens habitually, as I said. One has to scrub the mind clean of it to remove it...that's what takes effort.

[Guest Quanty]

That fear is the stressed, blockage, chronic tension, pain/agony of your current body wiring. The head will interpret this as panic/fear. 

You need to embrace that fear, it will translate into physical pain/agony if you advance quickly. 

The only way to avoid this extreme fear and the pain is doing this in decades 10-30 years. 

[Faceless]

6 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

How to remove attachment then, without effort. I'm talking about the deep, ground in attachment. Like a mother and child, husband and wife, etc. Not the easy surface stuff.

I’m talking about the root of attachment. All dependence to capture and maintain psychological security. 

[Faceless]

5 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

 One has to scrub the mind clean of it to remove it...that's what takes effort.

The scrubbing clean is a movement motivated by attatchment. This movement of volition is influenced by fear. 

Any movement of mind to end mind only perpetuates attatchment (fear) 

 

This will be clear when we see the whole of the self and how it moves in all it’s extremely subtle ways.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

I just mean until attatchment ends actually, one can not say if effort or no effort was a means to the ending of attatchment. Until the ending, There remains only assumptions. 

Im sure you see the point in this. 

Edited June 21, 2018 by Faceless

[Ananta]

28 minutes ago, Faceless said:

I just mean until attatchment ends actually, one can not say if effort or no effort was a means to the ending of attatchment. Until the ending, There remains only assumptions. 

Im sure you see the point in this. 

No offense, but it seems you have no advice of how to remove the root of attachment.  So, guess I'll stick with Vedanta and do Nididhyasana. If I've misunderstood, then certainly set me straight.  

 

[White]

@Quanty would you mind writing a journal and putting all of your theory and practices in one thread? I'd be very interested to learn, but it's hard for me because your advice is hidden among a lot of other things. 

[Faceless]

12 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

No offense, but it seems you have no advice of how to remove the root of attachment.  So, guess I'll stick with Vedanta and do Nididhyasana. If I've misunderstood, then certainly set me straight.  

 

I’m not giving advice buddy. 

I’m pointing to the necessity of understanding attachment. 

When one is only interested in “how to remove attachment” one is not interested in understanding the problem. One is only influenced by fear to end it. 

Any movement of fear prevents understanding. 

Edited June 21, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

These posts are not directed to anyone in particular, but to Us.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Faceless

[Ananta]

@Faceless  said-

"Well with all do respect, until that movement of attatchment ends I would say that is still an unanswered question for you. 

Its only in the ending of that attachment that one could conclude upon that question. "

 

Then, 

 

"When one is only interested in “how to remove attachment” one is not interested in understanding the problem. One is only influenced by fear to end it."

----------------

Is it just me? Or have contradicted yourself and talked in a complete circle?

 

[Faceless]

21 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

Well with all do respect, until that movement of attatchment ends I would say that is still an unanswered question for you. 

 

21 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

Its only in the ending of that attachment that one could conclude upon that question. "

 

This is to show that one cannot say if effort is necessary. Until you end attatchment, to say one must apply effort is an assumption. 

21 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

When one is only interested in “how to remove attachment” one is not interested in understanding the problem. One is only influenced by fear to end it."

----------------

This implies fear is looking to escape fear, and that one is not investigating into fear without fear influencing that investigation. 

 

It may seem contradictory to one who is attatched.

Just like it seems contradictory that fear is born of thought, and thought is born of fear. The cause is the effect and the effect is the cause. 

 

It‘s sublte and complex. And when we involve our own emotional attatchment to the investigation the investigation becomes corrupt by the very root of emotional attatchment, which is fear. 

 

Great question though. Such questions need to be approached.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Faceless

[robdl]

39 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

@Faceless  said-

"Well with all do respect, until that movement of attatchment ends I would say that is still an unanswered question for you. 

Its only in the ending of that attachment that one could conclude upon that question. "

 

Then, 

 

"When one is only interested in “how to remove attachment” one is not interested in understanding the problem. One is only influenced by fear to end it."

----------------

Is it just me? Or have contradicted yourself and talked in a complete circle?

 

The nature of thought itself has a circular quality to it.   Thought breeds fear-thought which breeds thought which breeds fear-thought.  Thought breeds self-thought which breeds thought which breeds self-thought, etc.  As faceless has said, cause is effect is cause is effect.  Anything like thought that is seeking security in its own movement is going to have a circular quality.  Fear propagates thought and thought propagates fear.

So in explaining the nature of thought itself, naturally it can seem like talking in a circle.

Edited June 21, 2018 by robdl

[Faceless]

6 minutes ago, robdl said:

The nature of thought itself has a circular quality to it.   Thought breeds fear-thought which breeds thought which breeds fear-thought.  Thought breeds self-thought which breeds thought which breeds self-thought, etc.  As faceless has said, cause is effect is cause is effect.  Anything like thought that is seeking security in its own movement is going to have a circular quality.  Fear propagates thought and thought propagates fear.

So in explaining the nature of thought itself, naturally it can seem like talking in a circle.

Indeed 

Thought is a self perpetuating process.

And good call on identifying how explaining that process will seem circular ⭕️

Edited June 21, 2018 by Faceless

[robdl]

Thought breeds fear then thought attempts to escape from it (i.e. fear action again) -- circular.

Thought breeds desire then thought attempts to seek after it (i.e. desire action again) -- circular.

But escaping and seeking are actually one and the same.  Fear and desire are actually one and the same.  Dualistic language makes the distinction.

Edited June 21, 2018 by robdl

[robdl]

Thought, fear, volition, desire, psychological time, knowledge, and 'I'-self are all one and the same movement/mechanism/process.   Thought chops it up into different words and concepts.

Not spouting philosophy here.  It's to be seen.

Edited June 21, 2018 by robdl

[robdl]

within fear there is a flavour of desire (to desire/want to escape)

within desire there is a flavour of fear (to escape from a sense of lack)

within knowledge there is a flavour of time (as knowledge is of the past)

within time there is the flavour of knowledge (as our past is made of the accumulated memory, knowledge, experience)

within knowledge there is a flavour of desire (isn't knowledge always desired/sought/wanted?)

They're so completely inter-related because they're all one and the same movement.

Edited June 21, 2018 by robdl

[Faceless]

4 minutes ago, robdl said:

within fear there is a flavour of desire (to desire/want to escape fear)

within desire there is a flavour of fear (to escape from a sense of lack)

within knowledge there is a flavour of time (as knowledge is of the past)

within time there is the flavour of knowledge (as our past is made of the accumulated memory, knowledge, experience)

within knowledge there is a flavour of desire (isn't knowledge always desired/sought/wanted?)

They're so completely inter-related because they're all one and the same movement.

Precisely