Fear of losing myself

[Santhiphap]

Everytime I meditate, I can get to a state where thoughts are almost gone very quickly.

Then I feel a slight bliss inside, I think I feel the taste of the essence of being, my body starts to feel lighter. I start to slowly let bit by bit of myself go to be consumed by nothingness.

Then fear arises, the heart starts to go faster, anxiety crawls up, i need to breath, I cant let go any further.

Am I really on the edge of ego death? Is this really the reason why fear comes up? It sure feels like just fear of losing myself.

 

Edited June 20, 2018 by Santhiphap

[Santhiphap]

When a thought comes up, I love it.

When a sound comes up that is unknown, instead of questioning or fear it, I love it.

But when that deep existential anxiety comes up, I dont seem to be able to love it enough.

Suggestions? Encouragement?

[Solace]

Keep surrendering everything to love. You can only know if it’s an ego death once the ego has died  

24 minutes ago, Santhiphap said:

Then fear arises, the heart start to go faster, anxiety crawls up, i need to breath, I cant let go any further.

I get this all the time too. What helps me is using my heart, the source of my higher self, as a focus point so that when the fear arises, I can just relax further into the rising and falling of my chest. Although your technique seems to be working really well. To expand upon it, keep loving what arises throughout the day too. Surrender deeply when the fear arises, just let it win.

Edited June 20, 2018 by Solace

[Ananta]

1 hour ago, Santhiphap said:

Am I really on the edge of ego death? Is this really the reason why fear comes up? It sure feels like just fear of losing myself.

The reason you have fear is because you are believing that the ego, which is just the "I-thought", can die. It can not.

How can one kill a thought? You see its apparent existence as illusion and in that regard, you discriminate between you, awareness, from what appears within you, thought. 

So, during meditation or Self inquiry, when the mind is completely silent, you, awareness, are still there...."aware" OF the silence.

[Faceless]

Fear of losing myself....

 

Thought is the root of self....

 

Without fear thought/self has no role, which brings fear. So the self constantly looks to escape fear, yet at the same time clings to fear to fulfill its very function. 

Fear is born of thought, and thought born of fear. 

The cause is the effect and the effect is the cause. 

 

Thought fears fear, and depends on fear to sustain its own continuity at the same time.

 

The perpetual conflict of tuggawar. 

The self and fear are one and the same movement. 

 

Edited June 21, 2018 by Faceless

[Prabhaker]

2 hours ago, Santhiphap said:

Then fear arises, the heart starts to go faster, anxiety crawls up, i need to breath, I cant let go any further.

If you don't escape, if you don't resist , if you remain relaxed , just watch without judging , you will be different. 

Don't assume that it is ego death, ego comes back again and again.

[Santhiphap]

Thanks for the words @Solace.

I could definitely do more practice towards being able to accept and love the fears that come up often during my daily life (a lot lately). I tend to put that kind of practice aside as I see only full enlightenment as the solution.

Maybe practicing how to handle the "insignificant" anxieties during the daily life (which are really painfull as well) is the key here.

Somehow I just realized how the last couple of months really have been an invitation exactly for that.

7 hours ago, Anna1 said:

The reason you have fear is because you are believing that the ego, which is just the "I-thought", can die. It can not.

From what I learned even if enlightenment/ego death happens the mind still goes on with "I-thoughts/feelings" etc. But the identification with that "person" that used to be identified with isnt happening anymore. Even though the "true self"/conciousness is still very much alive from my understanding ego death is still a death to be feared. Am I missing something? Can you or someone elaborate?

7 hours ago, Prabhaker said:

Don't assume that it is ego death, ego comes back again and again.

Yes I understand that the ego comes back again. But for that moment of presence, if I would fully let go, it would cease to exist as the identification with it would cease to exist. Also, in that moment, I am assuming time wont be a thing so saying its not a permanent ego death doesnt seem to be relevant or make it easier to let go.

 

Thank you guys for all your words, appreciate it!

[Santhiphap]

7 hours ago, Faceless said:

Fear of losing myself....

 

Thought is the root of self....

 

Without fear thought/self has no role, which brings fear. So the self constantly looks to escape fear, yet at the same time clings to fear to fulfill its very function. 

Fear is born of thought, and thought born of fear. 

The cause is the effect and the effect is the cause. 

 

Thought fears fear, and depends on fear to sustain its own continuity at the same time.

 

The perpetual conflict of tuggawar. 

The self and fear are one and the same movement. 

 

Thank you for this. Seems like there is some wisdom to be discovered. I will come back to this when I have some silence to be able to understand this fully.

[furashido]

11 hours ago, Santhiphap said:

Everytime I meditate, I can get to a state where thoughts are almost gone very quickly.

Then I feel a slight bliss inside, I think I feel the taste of the essence of being, my body starts to feel lighter. I start to slowly let bit by bit of myself go to be consumed by nothingness.

Then fear arises, the heart starts to go faster, anxiety crawls up, i need to breath, I cant let go any further.

Am I really on the edge of ego death? Is this really the reason why fear comes up? It sure feels like just fear of losing myself.

 

Fear is of the mind and will lead to illusion. It can cause bigger problems if not dealt with. Work on the cause of your fear. What’s holding you from letting go? This will be applicable to any aspect of life. Be fearless. 

[cetus]

12 hours ago, Santhiphap said:

But when that deep existential anxiety comes up, I dont seem to be able to love it enough.

Suggestions? Encouragement?

@SanthiphapYou have no idea how close you are to a real break through. Keep going! 

[Ananta]

3 hours ago, Santhiphap said:

From what I learned even if enlightenment/ego death happens the mind still goes on with "I-thoughts/feelings" etc. But the identification with that "person" that used to be identified with isnt happening anymore. Even though the "true self"/conciousness is still very much alive from my understanding ego death is still a death to be feared. Am I missing something? Can you or someone elaborate?

Again, there is no ego death, unless someone is calling a "silent mind", the death of the ego, however the mind doesn't stay silent forever. So, when the I-thought arises again, which it always does, was it killed? No.

Yes, the mind realizes that it is not the "I-thought", never was, so identification with ego starts to waver and once assimilation of that fact is complete, there is left just "association" with the person, not identification. You identify with your true nature, which is awareness. Although you continue on playing your part in the apparent world.

A silent mind is extremely pleasant, calm and peaceful. Nothing to fear at all. Ego (I- thought) wants you to think there is something to fear, but that's a lie. 

 

 

 

Edited June 21, 2018 by Anna1

[tsuki]

14 hours ago, Santhiphap said:

Everytime I meditate, I can get to a state where thoughts are almost gone very quickly.

Then I feel a slight bliss inside, I think I feel the taste of the essence of being, my body starts to feel lighter. I start to slowly let bit by bit of myself go to be consumed by nothingness.

Then fear arises, the heart starts to go faster, anxiety crawls up, i need to breath, I cant let go any further.
Am I really on the edge of ego death? Is this really the reason why fear comes up? It sure feels like just fear of losing myself.

It may sound banal and cliche, but hear me out: there is no you to be lost.
The empty bliss you experience is the natural state that is being clouded by thoughts.
It is not that thoughts are covering it up. You have became aware enough so that you can experience both.

This is a preliminary step to experience emptiness and thought at the same time.
The thing that prevents you is that you think that you think your thoughts. You don't.
Thoughts arise by themselves. They calm down by themselves.
The fact that you sit and meditate has nothing to do with it.

There is no you to be lost.

[Crystalous]

Fear is not real.Whenever you feel fear you do not live in the authentic reality.Meditation means i live in reality.So next time you feel fear remember this is not authentic.

[Nahm]

@Santhiphap I think what you’re “hitting” is the very bottom. The realization that you have assigned meaning and value your entire life, relative to a “you” which is “separate”. It is a scary thing to let go, because we tend to worry that after letting go, life will feel pointless and meaningless. But you must let go, to see what is, to be without the fear, to be True. Like the slow climb of a rollercoaster, the fear is illusionary, it’s part of the ride, the exciting part, then you reach that pinnacle, or fulcrum, and let go, and it’s unimaginably awesome. 

[cetus]

"The moment I jumped off of it- was the moment I touched down"    -Alanis Morissette

[Santhiphap]

1 hour ago, Anna1 said:

Again, there is no ego death, [...] Nothing to fear at all. Ego (I- thought) wants you to think there is something to fear, but that's a lie. 

Ok after meditating an hour earlier I read this and it triggered some kind of deep insight that I didnt understand but it felt very much liberating. I thought I got it fully but I couldnt conceptualize and remember it. I lost touch of it a few minutes later. But I still feel a bit liberated of the fear now that I think of it more like there is no death, there is just another perspective to see things.

Maybe working on that insight and investigate again during the next meditation I will be able not to be tricked into fear again and actually have a non disturbing, blissfull transcendence of I.

This ego death thought just really stuck in my head. One of the reasons was Leos blog video where he talks about how frightening it is to "kill yourself" (ego).

[Santhiphap]

1 hour ago, tsuki said:

there is no you to be lost.
The empty bliss you experience is the natural state that is being clouded by thoughts.

Thank you for the reminder  This fact will probably help alot with the process of devoting myself to the natural state.

 

[cetus]

2 hours ago, Anna1 said:

Again, there is no ego death, unless someone is calling a "silent mind", the death of the ego,

@Anna1 A silent or still mind is a beautiful thing to experiance but it's no ego death. Not in my experiance anyway. Maybe what happened to me was a bit out of the ordinary but when I surrendered I entered into a samadhi state of total union. I'll never forget that day Sept. 17, 2015. Before that I had experienced a perfectly still mind for years in meditation but this was something totally different that I never realized was even possible. I know now that the ego is not real but before that experiance the ego was very real and so was the fear it created.

[Santhiphap]

Thank you @Crystalous@Nahm @cetus56  as well for all the words. This thread has become an important resource for my process in no time!

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

@Santhiphap It is a scary thing to let go, because we tend to worry that after letting go, life will feel pointless and meaningless. 

This is true. I also fear that I will not be able to live a social life with the people around me, those who I love. I fear that I will not be able to love them anymore and that they would notice and it would break their heart. But now that I think about it i will probably be able to project my love much better. 

Edited June 21, 2018 by Santhiphap

[Ananta]

1.  

30 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

A silent or still mind is a beautiful thing to experiance but it's no ego death. Not in my experiance anyway

I don't think the ego can die or be killed at all. I just know it doesn't arise (for me) when my mind is silent or in samadhi. That's what I was trying to say.

Those that speak of ego death, what do they mean, exactly? I don't know, but it doesn't seem possible to kill a thought. How would one function in the world if thought no longer arose, ever? 

The i-thought is the first thought and other thoughts, come and after it, even the most practical of thoughts. (Ie, I'm hungry, im thirsty, im hot, im cold, etc). Of course, "I" is not always in the thought sentence. It's just an example.

30 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

. I know now that the ego is not real but before that experiance the ego was very real and so was the fear it created.

Right, in my experience, its knowing/realizing it's not real..boom!

So, what's the need to kill it (even if you could, which you cant) if you know/understand it not real.

For me, even though I know it's not real...I still get involved with the "story" a bit more then I should sometimes, but that just means some more assimilation needs to happen. It's ok, it takes years typically to "fully" assimilate.