I don't understand idealism or why it matters.

[sleeperstakes]

Why does it matter whether materialism or idealism is correct if they are both unfalsifiable. Why does Leo and authors like Bernardo Kastrup act like it's a huge revelation that reality is conciousness. Does this really have any practical implications? Does any philosophy or metaphysics? It just seems like pointless abstraction for the sake of abstraction. 

[Faceless]

3 minutes ago, sleeperstakes said:

Why does it matter whether materialism or idealism is correct if they are both unfalsifiable. Why does Leo and authors like Bernardo Kastrup act like it's a huge revelation that reality is conciousness. Does this really have any practical implications? Does any philosophy or metaphysics? It just seems like pointless abstraction for the sake of abstraction. 

Thought loves abstraction. It depends on it. 

[WildeChilde]

35 minutes ago, sleeperstakes said:

Why does it matter whether materialism or idealism is correct if they are both unfalsifiable. Why does Leo and authors like Bernardo Kastrup act like it's a huge revelation that reality is conciousness. Does this really have any practical implications? Does any philosophy or metaphysics? It just seems like pointless abstraction for the sake of abstraction. 

Some of us just want to know what the truth is.

Also, if you know what the answer to metaphysics is, you have the foundation to answer all sorts of other questions.  For example, if it turns out all of reality is consciousness, including ourselves, then we are in fact one with everything.  What reason should we have to treat other people, animals, plants, ecosystems, and the planet as a whole so poorly?  

[hundreth]

There's a huge practical difference. In the materialist paradigm, you're a collection of atoms, molecules, etc. randomly put together by statistical chance. When your body dies, you die. What ever happens in this paradigm is just a matter of circumstance, yet you shoulder all of the responsibility to somehow manipulate it.

On the other hand, all of this lives inside consciousness. That means there is an inherent intelligence to it, it means YOU chose your existence and life. It means you can surrender. 

[Nahm]

2 hours ago, sleeperstakes said:

Why does it matter whether materialism or idealism is correct if they are both unfalsifiable. This doesn’t matter to you enough to look into it for yourself? 

Why does Leo and authors like Bernardo Kastrup act like it's a huge revelation that reality is conciousness. Does this really have any practical implications?

Would knowing you are not ‘sleeperstakes’, but rather infinite eternal consciousness not change your life in every practical way?  Do you think you’d look at anything the same again?

Does any philosophy or metaphysics? It just seems like pointless abstraction for the sake of abstraction.  Then it is. I don’t think you should bother.  Self inquire instead. This is a great underestimation of what you are and literally what is going on right now where you are sitting. Look around you. What is that? What the hell is actually goin on? 

 

[RichardY]

 

Materialism - Deterministic; Theres is no Morality or Evil (delusional), instead what you really are thinking of is utility. "Existence precedth essence." The fact of being comes before consciousness. Although materialism has it's advantages, in one sense it is perhaps the most empirical you can be, if taken to it's logical outcome.

Neutral Monism - Oblivion; Consciousness is a potential property of matter. Once you die nothing has to remain, as a necessity, not even an echo. Freewill exists as a potentiality, an accumulation of a "Will to Power" never reached. Such as infinity "existing" as a potentiality. Things exist becasue they can. "Amor Fati" (Love of Fate)

Idealism - Mind of God; Consciousness is primary. It maybe possible, to come to know apart of the mind of God through morality or other means. Freewill may exist as an actuality, The mind of God itself, perhaps.

---------------------------
Panpsychism - Everything (a Monad) has an individual apriori revelation of the divine. So your chair is compromised of mutliple souls. Everything that occurs is divinely inspired, means that anything negative that happens will ultimately be "The Best of all worlds".
Dualism - Mind(Soul) is Distinct, from Matter. Once you die your soul can remain.
---------------------------

Personally I'm biased towards Neutral Monism. Though it does not explain creation, is that necessary? However, Idealism does have it's appeals. If Idealism were true, you are literally in a battle for your soul. I'm open to Idealism, but closed to the rest. I think pure Materialism is incorrect.

[Faceless]

2 hours ago, WildeChilde said:

Some of us just want to know what the truth is.

 

Truth can never be found in abstraction. 

Truth is when abstraction is not. 

Edited June 21, 2018 by Faceless

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, sleeperstakes said:

Does this really have any practical implications?

The practical implications are so enormous you cannot even being to fathom them, and they cannot be easily explained to a materialist such as yourself.

Reality does not exist!

You were never born!

You invented every single problem in your life!

Do you realize how significant that is?

It seems like abstraction to you because all you're doing is holding idealism as an idea in your mind, while holding materialism as REALITY. But what you fail to see is that to truly realize idealism means that your entire notion of reality will crumble. You're not interested in having that happen, so you merely entertain idealism as an idea. And of course, an idea of enlightenment is a pure abstraction with no practice consequences for your life.

It is as though you are a poor man on the street complaining: "But Leo! How is the idea of being a billionaire going to change my life? It's pure abstraction! How is that going to feed me? Ideas don't pay bills."

You're right! The idea of being a billionaire will not feed you.

But I am not talking about an idea of being a billionaire. I am talking about a cold hard billion dollars in your pocket. Not the idea of it, but the actual thing.

Take some LSD and see for yourself what you're missing.

Here's a very simple practical implication:

An idealist is immortal and cannot die. A materialist will die.

And there are thousands more practical consequences of idealism. Like the ability to heal yourself of serious physical diseases using your mind. Which a materialist cannot do.

[Hotaka]

@Leo Gura Haha I like that a lot Leo, it challenges me a little bit, in the sense that it is evident that this approach could end in spiritual capitalism based on energy of consciousness as a resource in the world to be had by anyone who has the skills necessary.

[Hotaka]

4 hours ago, hundreth said:

There's a huge practical difference. In the materialist paradigm, you're a collection of atoms, molecules, etc. randomly put together by statistical chance. When your body dies, you die. What ever happens in this paradigm is just a matter of circumstance, yet you shoulder all of the responsibility to somehow manipulate it.

On the other hand, all of this lives inside consciousness. That means there is an inherent intelligence to it, it means YOU chose your existence and life. It means you can surrender. 

I do like this

[Hotaka]

@Hotaka Actually in reply to myself in my previous post, I would say one more thing... I think that 

4 hours ago, hundreth said:

On the other hand, all of this lives inside consciousness. That means there is an inherent intelligence to it, it means YOU chose your existence and life. It means you can surrender. 

this quote which I previously appreciated and still do today has one aspect that is incessably producing a ringing in my ears, and that is that consciousness lives within the body, not the body within consciousness, this is just a shot in the dark but could it be that it is the case?

@hundrethSo the fact that consciousness living in the body needs nothing to support it, because God would be playing dumb if you thought you needed a body... At least, to survive you don't need one, and I think you go off to shroom land into some sort of mycelium like astral network of relationships of Souls. So here what I am saying is is that the body has consciousness in it because it needs the consciousness to be useful and to propagate and recreate and replicate etc, which is why you are healthy when you meditate more and release attachment to old ideas and patterns in form in your astral body. Thich is the source of all your physical patterns in the mind and body today, encrusted like forms that if not put in their proper place to be useful they are of no use and need to be integrated someplace else. Tis like a library of illnesses in your mind. Consciousness is a physical phenomena and can only exist inasmuch as there are physical perceptions you can have, the phenomenon always occurs as an expression of the body in which it is. I may be playing devil's advocate here, I don't know, but inasmuch as there is consciousness and the ability to know this, I see that it is occurring in a body, and in it is the space of my being, as absence of spirit due to the filter of the body, as an energy sucking mechanism that created this quote

Edited June 21, 2018 by Hotaka

[Hotaka]

Thick meaning.

[hundreth]

9 hours ago, Hotaka said:

@Hotaka Actually in reply to myself in my previous post, I would say one more thing... I think that 

this quote which I previously appreciated and still do today has one aspect that is incessably producing a ringing in my ears, and that is that consciousness lives within the body, not the body within consciousness, this is just a shot in the dark but could it be that it is the case?

@hundrethSo the fact that consciousness living in the body needs nothing to support it, because God would be playing dumb if you thought you needed a body... At least, to survive you don't need one, and I think you go off to shroom land into some sort of mycelium like astral network of relationships of Souls. So here what I am saying is is that the body has consciousness in it because it needs the consciousness to be useful and to propagate and recreate and replicate etc, which is why you are healthy when you meditate more and release attachment to old ideas and patterns in form in your astral body. Thich is the source of all your physical patterns in the mind and body today, encrusted like forms that if not put in their proper place to be useful they are of no use and need to be integrated someplace else. Tis like a library of illnesses in your mind. Consciousness is a physical phenomena and can only exist inasmuch as there are physical perceptions you can have, the phenomenon always occurs as an expression of the body in which it is. I may be playing devil's advocate here, I don't know, but inasmuch as there is consciousness and the ability to know this, I see that it is occurring in a body, and in it is the space of my being, as absence of spirit due to the filter of the body, as an energy sucking mechanism that created this quote

Hey, I'm not too sure I'm following, but the idea of consciousness living in the body IS materialism. So you can go back to my original post. 

Other than that, I think you may have hit on something which is that consciousness creates the "material" realm to express itself. Duality seems to be necessary for expression.

Edited June 21, 2018 by hundreth

[Hotaka]

@hundreth Yeah it's kind of tricky cause indeed it is consciousness creating the 'material' realm, yes indeed, but in it's own way it resides within it independently of mistakes and corrections, it is like the truth that is there whether you are looking or not, so it needs no consciousness or body either, but it is ever present in all bodies just because they can't be in relation to it. So really there is no 'consciousness' to create 'anything'. Something or nothing it makes no difference as they are all shades of grey on the one scale, one or two, but two is always in the one, and one in the two, whether they are in conflict or not.