spiral dynamics question

[sarapr]

When kids are born, the first stages they go through is the ones before red, but if they grow up in an orange stage family they're likely to never cultivate stage blue thinking. That means skipping stages which Leo says is not possible.

So is it possible?

Another issue would be, how I can resonate with three different stages at the same time. The values in each stage are supposed to be antithetical to one another. Or maybe we can behave according to different set of values in different facets of life?

[Zweistein]

3 hours ago, sarapr said:

When kids are born, the first stages they go through is the ones before red, but if they grow up in an orange stage family they're likely to never cultivate stage blue thinking. That means skipping stages which Leo says is not possible.

So is it possible

Good one! I would also dare to say that it is possible to skip stages that way. Imagine growing up with yellow/turquoise parents ?

[ValiantSalvatore]

As far as I know you grow through them you do not skip them but most likely your growth will be accelerated by yellow/turquoise parents yet your enviroment will most likely also have a huge impact. Also, you have a stage where your "development" gravitates towards meaning that you will act out this stage most of the time, yet you can also use other stages or fall back into that behaviour for sometime. Your center never changes apparently.  You will certainly develop blue thinking otherwise it would be not possible to act efficiently in a group and see yourself as part of a group / identifiy with it. Yellow parents would be n1 since they can see that as a partial truth, yet green or orange parents will clash to some degree most likely. Since, they want their child to develop to their way of thinking and might not understand that the child is going through a blue/orange/red phase or developmental level. The best example is when you have blue parents and you are orange and you can see their perspective or view on reality in terms of family clashes with your drive of freedom, autonomey and sucess. To strive within the system and be sucessful scientist or have a successful career a great job which earns a lot of money or to be academically successful. 

Edited June 20, 2018 by ValiantSalvatore

[Rilles]

I clearly remember growing through all the stages. One day when I was like 14 I I started watching videos on Atheism, that was my Blue to Orange transition, I wasnt religious before that but I hadnt learned how to be skeptical. At around 18 y.o pure Orange started to seem untenable so I started growing into Green which is were Im currently at.

[White]

@sarapr Sara, spiral dynamics is just a social perspective of development. If you want to understand how the stages manifest in the interior then go and geek out at cook-greuter.com. Nobody can skip stages because each stage is built upon the last one. That's like saying you can produce smoke without fire. 

[White]

On 20/06/2018 at 11:30 AM, Zweistein said:

Good one! I would also dare to say that it is possible to skip stages that way. Imagine growing up with yellow/turquoise parents ?

The irony is yellow and turquoise parents will encourage you to develop properly via each stage, yellow is the first stage to really understand the importance of each stage. Green parents will most likely stunt our growth as they think stage development (nested growth hierarchies) are unnecessary and false. Green really is a dangerous stage, but paradoxically it's also necessary. Let's just call it a necessary evil  

Edited June 21, 2018 by White

[Sea]

On 6/20/2018 at 0:18 PM, Rilles said:

I clearly remember growing through all the stages. One day when I was like 14 I I started watching videos on Atheism, that was my Blue to Orange transition, I wasnt religious before that but I hadnt learned how to be skeptical. At around 18 y.o pure Orange started to seem untenable so I started growing into Green which is were Im currently at.

Ok, so simply being non-skeptical atheist gets you through blue? Isn't this really stretching the definition of blue? What's weird to me is that according to you guys, you can go through beige, red and blue as a child without ever believing even 10% of the sh** an adult in those stages would believe. I don't get the impression the standard for orange on this forum is very high either. Just be a materialistic atheist for a while and you're through! Then suddenly for green, you have to adopt quite a specific worldview.

Wouldn't it be much easier to just accept that people generally start out at whatever stage their parents are. Yeah, the theory would be less "neat" but at least it would be more consistent.

[White]

@Sea hi 

I sense some frustration maybe caused by some misunderstanding around development. Am I correct? If you are willing I'd like to help you with some of the things you are not grasping. It's a difficult subject just to learn using spiral dynamics because the graves model talks about the social we space and how these levels have evolved through history. The interior developmental trajectory is science based and backed by research. It's slightly different because it's coming from a different angle to the graves model, but the correlations are very strong.  I'm willing to talk if you are interested? This would be a good place to start because of Sara's original question 

Edited June 21, 2018 by White

[Thanatos13]

Assuming that any of these stages even exist or that they weren’t simply made up.

[Sea]

@White I'm ready to discuss this.

[Zweistein]

5 hours ago, White said:

The irony is yellow and turquoise parents will encourage you to develop properly via each stage, yellow is the first stage to really understand the importance of each stage.

 

OK - so maybe you can't skip a stage but potentially go through them much faster. 

So you think green is dangerous? Could you be reflecting something into your statement here? Why do you think green is so dangerous? ?

 

Edited June 21, 2018 by Zweistein

[Zweistein]

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I wouldn’t take the theory of Spiral Dynamics too literally.  

Sometimes I wonder - do you guys reflect on what you have written?

And yes, I apologize to ask such mean questions full with lots of ego, lol ?

[White]

@Zweistein If you don't know the limitations of Green, is spiral dynamics or any model that correlates going to be of any use to you? 

[White]

@Sea you should have a look at Suzanne cook greuters work and that will explain the model from the interior of the personal. You will see that there is no having to go through being a gangster, a born again fundamentalist or an orange materialist. It's about how you make meaning of your experience.  

[Zweistein]

45 minutes ago, White said:

@Zweistein If you don't know the limitations of Green, is spiral dynamics or any model that correlates going to be of any use to you? 

I wonder if it helps anything, but let me tell you how I read this:

"If I don't know the limitations of Green, is spiral dynamics or any model that correlates going to be any use to me?"

Can you laugh about it now?

[Zweistein]

47 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

You gotta learn how to use models without letting them use you.  That’s a skill that takes understanding and practice.  Models are nothing more than more or less useful lenses or frameworks.

And this one:

"I gotta learn how to use models without letting them use me..."

Hilarius, isn't it? ??

[Sea]

@White Ok, so how much does one need to immerse themselves in a phase to be able to transcend it? From what people are writing on this forum, it seems there's a consensus that much more is required to pass through green than through the earlier levels. For example is being just centre-left on the political spectrum enough, or do I need to be ok with everything the Venezuelan and Chinese governments are doing? 

Edited June 21, 2018 by Sea

[White]

@Zweistein  I'm not sure I understand your perspective fully.  What are you trying to communicate?

[Zweistein]

@White I'm trying to communicate how I dare to read any comments in this forum.  

It helps to read between the lines and it's mind blowing - have you tried?

Edited June 21, 2018 by Zweistein

[White]

@Sea I don't think your personal interests or political interests have anything to do with it. Going through the stages means living them and assimilating. There is a consensus in developmental psychology circles that it takes about 5 years to navigate through each stage. Think of it this way, you can use your meditation practice or self inquiry to produce non dual states that help you disidentify yourself from the stage your ego is embedded in right now.  The stages are already there awaiting for you, they were co-created in the past and are kind of stored in the unconscious storage bin of humanity (do you find that analogy helpful?) When you emerge from blue you enter into an already pre existing world called orange . It's the same for everyone. Orange was developed in the we space around the time of the renaissance. Before that, humanity didn't have access to that level of cognition. Some argue that it was developed even earlier with the Greeks, but didn't become centre of gravity until the middle of the last millennia. I don't think it takes more to pass through green than earlier levels. I have not heard that idea before. Anyway, does any of this make sense? I hope I'm explaining it effectively