Problems are an Illusion of the Ego

[Ananta]

Just now, Faceless said:

?

??

I don't know what this means? 

[Faceless]

4 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

I don't know what this means? 

Oh Lololol

"I, (?) bow to the divine in you".

thats what namaste means right? 

 

?

??

Edited June 24, 2018 by Faceless

[Ananta]

Just now, Faceless said:

Oh Lololol

"I, (?) bow to the divine in you".

 

?

??

♡♡♡♡♡♡ Ditto.

[Ananta]

8 minutes ago, Faceless said:

thats what namaste means right? 

You got it! 

 

[robdl]

58 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

@robdl

 Why is that a problem? If we never use memory or past knowledge, then that's called being a baby, cause we wouldnt know anything...nothing. I'm a nurse, I use past knowledge all day.

Forgot to address this.

You’re speaking of technical or practical knowledge. How to drive, knowing where to go, and so on.

But knowledge can be much more pervasive than that when knowledge gets intertwined with self/identity (I’m a Buddhist, I’m smart/knowledgeable, I’m a nurse,  etc.); when knowledge is intertwined with belief(as belief is a movement of seeking security); and when knowledge (or experience) is an attachment to memory/the past. 

This is the psychological knowledge faceless and I are speaking of. It’s the movement of knowledge that is also the movement of identity(self), fear/insecurity/belief, and time/attachment to the past.

And so the movement of thought-self-psychological time sustaining its own movement. (3 dualistic terms for the same unitary movement).

Edited June 24, 2018 by robdl

[Faceless]

13 minutes ago, robdl said:

Forgot to address this.

You’re speaking of technical or practical knowledge. How to drive, knowing where to go, and so on.

But knowledge can be much more pervasive than that when knowledge gets intertwined with identity (I’m a Buddhist, I’m smart/knowledgeable, I’m a nurse,  etc.); when knowledge is intertwined with belief(as belief is a movement of seeking security); and when knowledge (or experience) is an attachment to memory/the past. 

This is the psychological knowledge faceless and I are speaking of. It’s the movement of knowledge that is also the movement of identity(self), fear/insecurity, and time/attachment to the past.

And so the movement of thought-self sustaining its own movement.

Well explained. 

This is is what I have been meaning by thought has no place psychologically what so ever. 

Thought started out as a means to respond to environmental problems (as a function)..But that same movement of thought is now being applied psychologically. Thought is nourishing and perpetuating the illusion of the i, and the i is perpetuating and nourishing the movement of thought. 

The cause is the effect and the effect is the cause. 

Or mutual dependence

Edited June 24, 2018 by Faceless

[robdl]

10 minutes ago, Faceless said:

 

The cause is the effect and the effect is the cause. 

Thought/fear seeks security in knowledge (movement of fear-thought) then thought/self identifies with the knowledge (movement of I-thought). But  this is all thought seeking its own movement. Self-feeding loop indeed.

fear, self, time, and thought are one and the same. This is the insight that is whole.

Edited June 24, 2018 by robdl

[Ananta]

Now you guys are just showing off 

[robdl]

It’s so sneaky and so subtle, and can be explained/explored in so many ways, it becomes useful to refine what we’re talking about through continued communication.

Because the significance of it is so immense.

Edited June 24, 2018 by robdl

[Faceless]

That’s correct. 

The more we explore all the different ways in which thought inter-relates and inter-depends, the more holistic the understanding. And the greater attention/awareness to that very complex movement as it takes place in ourselves. 

 

Edited June 24, 2018 by Faceless

[phoenix666]

@Revolutionary Think wow, I've known that on an intellectual level for a while now. but it was shown to me in a very 'visceral', 'bodily' way through MDMA. that substance connected me to my emotions that deeply, that my mind just rested in complete silence. it was utter bliss. no monkey, only love, harmony and peace.

the day after the mind slowly crept back. and it demonstrated me very directly how thoughts literally construct all problems. there are  no problems, the mind projects them onto reality. entirely self created. such a humbling experience..

[Revolutionary Think]

@phoenix666 Interesting ya I know that on an intellectual level but, I'm still human so I still have things that bother me. What gave you the idea of doing the MDMA and where did you get it? 

[MisterMan]

On 6/23/2018 at 3:21 PM, Revolutionary Think said:

@MisterMan I think you mean says the problems. If there weren't any problems there wouldn't be an ego there would just be what is. 

 

[Revolutionary Think]

Near the last part of this he talks about what the ego is and does 

   

[phoenix666]

On 24. Juni 2018 at 7:36 AM, Revolutionary Think said:

@phoenix666 Interesting ya I know that on an intellectual level but, I'm still human so I still have things that bother me. What gave you the idea of doing the MDMA and where did you get it? 

oh, yeah, things still bother me as well. but I think the whole thing helped me raising my overall awareness. I still get sucked into thoughts and problems/worries...but I sometimes get clear moments where I can peak through my own projection. that's when I can take a step back, gain distance and peace. then I can relax and act from a place of relaxation. (before getting sucked back into everything) it's a back and forth. but the clear moments will get more frequent, I hope at least 

here on the forum. someone suggested it for re-connecting with love. I've read some interesting stuff about MDMA for curing PTSD and connecting with emotions. and that's exactly what happened for me. it honestly felt like therapy. I got it from a friend.

it's not a classic psychedelic, but very underrated for this kind of work here, in my opinion. as always, it really depends on set, setting and intention. <3

[MisterMan]

On 6/24/2018 at 0:37 PM, robdl said:

Forgot to address this.

You’re speaking of technical or practical knowledge. How to drive, knowing where to go, and so on.

But knowledge can be much more pervasive than that when knowledge gets intertwined with self/identity (I’m a Buddhist, I’m smart/knowledgeable, I’m a nurse,  etc.); when knowledge is intertwined with belief(as belief is a movement of seeking security); and when knowledge (or experience) is an attachment to memory/the past. 

This is the psychological knowledge faceless and I are speaking of. It’s the movement of knowledge that is also the movement of identity(self), fear/insecurity/belief, and time/attachment to the past.

And so the movement of thought-self-psychological time sustaining its own movement. (3 dualistic terms for the same unitary movement).

Just would like to understand this a bit more. If i'm to take this understanding then would it be too much of a leap to then see the distinctions and identities of each individual thought and belief join into one? Kind of like droplets of water once they make contact with each other they are no longer separate droplets but part of the same. 

So "belief" and "knowledge" being separate distinctions (droplets) converge under the same category, thoughts.

Edited June 27, 2018 by MisterMan

[robdl]

15 hours ago, MisterMan said:

Just would like to understand this a bit more. If i'm to take this understanding then would it be too much of a leap to then see the distinctions and identities of each individual thought and belief join into one? Kind of like droplets of water once they make contact with each other they are no longer separate droplets but part of the same. 

So "belief" and "knowledge" being separate distinctions (droplets) converge under the same category, thoughts.

You can conceptualize it with water/droplets but avoid the mind trap that this kind of concept is the actual (whole) insight.  Thought-self loves concepts --- even concepts about nonduality and transcending thought/self --- and will accumulate them, but this is not insight, which is non-verbal/non-conceptual.   It may only be expressed verbally/conceptually after the insight, as the insight is expressed through thought for the purposes of communication. Thought distinguishes, differentiates, separates, identifies, classifies, labels, groups, categories --- that is its nature.    To use language (which is dualistic/thought) to communicate this stuff will inherently chop up everything into differences --- fear, desire, time, belief, knowledge, self, thought, etc.   

Knowledge is thought, and to attach to knowledge is thought seeking security in thought (this can also be considered as movement-from-what-is); the movement of thought-self.

Belief is thought, and to attach to belief is thought seeking security in thought (this can also be considered as movement-from-what-is); the movement of thought-self.

This process of thought-self and how it is always identifying, seeking security, attaching, clinging, moving in fear, moving from what-is.  These are all different concepts/words expressed in dualistic language for the one process.

Edited June 27, 2018 by robdl

[Faceless]

3 minutes ago, robdl said:

You can conceptualize it with water/droplets but avoid the mind trap that this kind of concept is the actual (whole) insight.  Thought-self loves concepts --- even concepts about nonduality and transcending thought/self --- and will accumulate them, but this is not insight, which is non-verbal/non-conceptual.   It may only be expressed verbally/conceptually after the insight, as the insight is expressed through thought for the purposes of communication. Thought distinguishes, differentiates, separates, identifies, classifies, labels, groups, categories --- that is its nature.    To use language (which is dualistic/thought) to communicate this stuff will inherently chop up everything into differences --- fear, desire, time, belief, knowledge, self, thought, etc.   

Beautifully said. 

[MisterMan]

7 hours ago, robdl said:

You can conceptualize it with water/droplets but avoid the mind trap that this kind of concept is the actual (whole) insight.  Thought-self loves concepts --- even concepts about nonduality and transcending thought/self --- and will accumulate them, but this is not insight, which is non-verbal/non-conceptual.   It may only be expressed verbally/conceptually after the insight, as the insight is expressed through thought for the purposes of communication. Thought distinguishes, differentiates, separates, identifies, classifies, labels, groups, categories --- that is its nature.    To use language (which is dualistic/thought) to communicate this stuff will inherently chop up everything into differences --- fear, desire, time, belief, knowledge, self, thought, etc.   

Knowledge is thought, and to attach to knowledge is thought seeking security in thought (this can also be considered as movement-from-what-is); the movement of thought-self.

Belief is thought, and to attach to belief is thought seeking security in thought (this can also be considered as movement-from-what-is); the movement of thought-self.

This process of thought-self and how it is always identifying, seeking security, attaching, clinging, moving in fear, moving from what-is.  These are all different concepts/words expressed in dualistic language for the one process.

right. I've been really having difficulty grasping "letting go" completely simply for the fact that there is nothing really to hold onto. Every or anything you try to take from the experience I immediately find myself continually trying to step back/let go. There honestly is very little motivation from the ego to do this and i don't even know why i am at this point.

I like that you tied the conceptualizing and searching for security together and i think you're bang on point , which is pretty much the reason why i have difficulty letting go, (nothing to hold onto).

I'm really beginning to see that i want to feel these emotions, wether it's anger, sadness, whatever it is they all perform a duty of security because without it there would be nothing.

Any remedies for this type of thing? Or is it just the matter of keep doing it and you will crossover.

Edited June 27, 2018 by MisterMan

[robdl]

16 hours ago, MisterMan said:

I'm really beginning to see that i want to feel these emotions, wether it's anger, sadness, whatever it is they all perform a duty of security because without it there would be nothing.

Any remedies for this type of thing? Or is it just the matter of keep doing it and you will crossover.

That's right -- the movement of thought-self seeks security in its movement by eliciting thoughts/emotions, especially ones with strong attachment/identification behind them such as anger, sadness, etc.   Where these emotions are being perpetuated, so is thought/self.   Just continue to observe the tendency of thought-self to elicit these emotions to maintain the sense of self and you'll understand that it's just a self-perpetuating thought-self loop.    Then you may get insight into the whole movement of thought-self, rather than being trapped in the loop, in identification with the emotion-thought content that is arising.  Passive, choiceless attention into the whole process.

The movement of thought-self doesn't care about whatever the thought-content is, as long as it helps perpetuate the movement.  It can be strong negative emotions, or happy memories.   It's not the thought-content that matters, it's the whole nature of the movement of thought-self itself.

Edited June 28, 2018 by robdl