Problems are an Illusion of the Ego

[Ananta]

2 minutes ago, robdl said:

Thought-self introducing time, is thought-self in the movement of seeking its own security. It’s a movement of fear.

Because time (psychological time, not clock time) is/of thought.

The subtletly of this trap is astonishing. But you will see it.

Alright, guess it's not possible to have a geniune, normal conversation with you right now. So, never mind.

See no arguement. Just wanted to understand better.

 

[robdl]

3 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

Alright, guess it's not possible to have a geniune, normal conversation with you right now. So, never mind.

See no arguement. Just wanted to understand better.

 

You don’t know it yet but you’re walking with me right now.  You’ll see it. And you will laugh cosmically.

Edited June 24, 2018 by robdl

[Ananta]

10 minutes ago, robdl said:

You don’t know it yet but you’re walking with me right now.  You’ll see it. 

I understand the concept of what you're saying, but it isn't translating to "normal daily life", to say not to have thoughts that move from what-is, as if I have control over that.

To say, don't "identify" with the thoughts that arise, because they're not "my" thoughts...now that makes sense, but that doesn't seem to be what you're saying.

 

Edited June 24, 2018 by Anna1

[robdl]

10 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

I understand the concept of what you're saying, but it isn't translating to "normal daily life", to say not to have thoughts that move from what-is.

To say, don't "identify" with the thoughts that arise, because they're not "my" thoughts...now that makes sense, but that doesn't seem to be what you're saying.

 

One needs to see that the movements of fear and desire in thought in daily life are movements of escaping and seeking.  But escaping and seeking are one and the same. Fear and desire are one and the same. This must be seen.  

Fears of loneliness/desires of companionship, fears of failure/desires for success, fears of poverty/ desires for wealth. All thought-self seeking security in its own movement.

 

Edited June 24, 2018 by robdl

[Ananta]

13 minutes ago, robdl said:

You’ll see it. And you will laugh cosmically.

I've already had the cosmic laugh...yeah, it's great.

I'm speaking now from the point of view of the "apparent person" and it's thoughts. Yes, I know I'm not it, but "it" still has an apparent body and life that "I" (awareness) am associated with...and will be until the death of the body.

 

[Faceless]

1 hour ago, Anna1 said:

Kay, so do you have an example of what your thinking is like? You say, "any movement from what-is" is this, that and the other.

 

If we are looking to desire, pleasure, to escape from what is, which we are generally afraid of, we are seeking psychological security in thought. Thought being, we create the abstraction or division between what the actuality is, (sorrow), and what we want that fact to be(anything but sorrow)Thought seeks security moving away from what is, to what it “thinks” will bring about security. 

 

What’s so difficult about that to understand and see in ourselves? This is an important and interesting question indeed. 

 

Other than the obvious reason that when we seek security psychologically, we resist anything that doesn’t bring about or maintain a certain degree of security. One way ticket to tricky and subtle illusion. 

1 hour ago, Anna1 said:

We all have thoughts, we all have desire/fear, even If we don't act or identify with those desire/fears.

If thoughts are arising that are derived from desire, pleasure, which implies that movement of thought is influenced by fear, then the process of identification has already taken place. The moment the movement of fear arises so does the movement of identification of the self...Identification is born of fear. And when there is fear the entire movement of time and all its implications are also at work. This is what is known as the conditioned consciousness (the i and the content that it identifies with sensations, desires, pleasures, all being perpetuated by fear of (what is). Fear and the escape from what is breeds desire, and thoughts that seek psychological security. 

 

If this is not understood then one is not capable of true awareness, and one will remain only unaware/inattentive. Until this is understood you are blind, because all such action is influenced by fear, you remain ignorant to that fact. If you remain ignorant and afraid of the fact, compulsive “l” thoughts (identification) will continue. 

 

See the fact. Don’t evade. Don’t let fear enslave you to remain in fear. If there is this deep rooted fear determining action those identification is inevitable. 

 

Edited June 24, 2018 by Faceless

[robdl]

9 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

I've already had the cosmic laugh...yeah, it's great.

I'm speaking now from the point of view of the "apparent person" and it's thoughts. Yes, I know I'm not it, but "it" still has an apparent body and life that "I" (awareness) am associated with...and will be until the death of the body.

 

Has this been seen directly, wholly - in clear fact, or has thought-self identified itself with/clung onto the knowledge/concept to perpetuate itself? 

 

Edited June 24, 2018 by robdl

[robdl]

One can’t be speaking from memory, knowledge, belief (all the past).

[Ananta]

Ok, so here's my version, when one has thoughts of an object (subtle or gross) it creates desire/fear, it strengthens the longer one thinks about it, creating attachment, attachment seems to create action, action creates karma. All of this perpetuates the ego and so on goes the wheel of Samsara.

Crikey, I see I have a few replies "above" to read! 

Edited June 24, 2018 by Anna1

[robdl]

1 minute ago, Anna1 said:

Ok, so here's my version, when one has thoughts of an object (subtle or gross) it creates desire/fear, it strengthens the longer one thinks about it, creating attachment, attachment seems to create action, action creates karma. All of this perpetuates the ego and so on goes the wheel of Samsara.

Crikey, I see I have a few replies "above" to read! 

I told you you were walking with me

[Faceless]

21 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

To say, don't "identify" with the thoughts that arise, because they're not "my" thoughts...now that makes sense, but that doesn't seem to be what you're saying.

 

It’s very easy to say I’m not going to identify with this thought because “I know” (believe) they are not my thoughts.

Thought is coming in and saying this thought is not mine. Thought has then attributed to itself as being independent of that same movement/process. This is how thought works. It picks and chooses what brings about security to itself. 

[Ananta]

5 minutes ago, robdl said:

Has this been seen directly, wholly - in clear fact,

This!

[robdl]

Thought attaching to thought breeds I-thought.  Saying fear breeds fear, or desire breeds desire, or even fear breeds desire, is also saying the same thing. 

Self-fear-desire all movement of thought, seeking security in its own movement.

Edited June 24, 2018 by robdl

[Faceless]

2 minutes ago, robdl said:

Thought attaching to thought breeds I-thought.  Saying fear breeds fear, or desire breeds desire, or even fear breeds desire, is also saying the same thing.

It’s incredible how it all comes together as a whole unitary movement isn’t it.

[robdl]

3 minutes ago, Faceless said:

It’s incredible how it all comes together as a whole unitary movement isn’t it.

The unitary movement is astonishing. 

The apparent dualistic language we use to describe this unitary movement in words is astonishing too - haha. 

50 ways to express something that’s one and the same.

Edited June 24, 2018 by robdl

[Faceless]

4 minutes ago, robdl said:

The unitary movement is astonishing. 

The apparent dualistic language we use to describe this unitary movement in words is astonishing too - haha. 

50 ways to express something that’s one and the same.

Lol...Yep

[Ananta]

You guys are tag teaming me! 

Anyway, for what you both are saying Vedanta would say that when the thought of objects, that have strong pull toward desiring/fearing, arise within the mind, then one needs to apply Self-knowledge to those thoughts (ie, I'm whole, complete, full, limitless awareness, therefore I don't need any object to complete me).  

 

[Ananta]

27 minutes ago, robdl said:

I told you you were walking with me

I know it seems that way, but I got that from a James Swartz, a vedanta teacher. 

 

[Faceless]

9 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

You guys are tag teaming me! 

No no, we both see the significance and want to share with share with other beautiful peoples as yourself. 

9 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

then one needs to apply Self-knowledge to those thoughts (ie, I'm whole, complete, full, limitless awareness, therefore I don't need any object to complete me).  

 

This sounds like more of a form of self hypnotism. We are not doing that here. We are starting with what is first. 

Seeing and understanding the whole movement of fear as it is. To say I am limitless yet remain limited by fear has no meaning. As long as the fact remains (fear/which acts as limitation) then that is the fact. As long as we move in this pattern of time (psychological becoming) there is only incomplete action, and we are not whole. 

If that can end then we can go from there. You see what I mean. Stay with what is. 

Edited June 24, 2018 by Faceless

[robdl]

12 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

I know it seems that way, but I got that from a James Swartz, a vedanta teacher. 

 

There are no authorities, second-hand teachings, or memories/knowledge when it comes to the self-understanding, the insight we’re talking about.

 

This is thought-self asserting time/knowledge, which is the same thing as saying thought-self asserting thought-self. Seeking security in its own movement.

Edited June 24, 2018 by robdl