Is Stage Green A Weird One for Men (Spiral Dynamics)?

[WildeChilde]

Stage Green, at least from my vantage point,  comes off as feminine and weak.  When you read about it, there seems to be an exorbitant amount of attention placed on emotions, pacifism, and indecision.  I understand this is a necessary step to get to Stage Yellow, but I imagine for many men it must feel a little strange.  Where is the strength and vitality in this mindset?

To stage Green or formerly Stage Green men,  are you/were you happy with yourself and your sense of masculinity at this stage?  I'm at Stage Blue for the most part, so it'd be nice to hear y'alls perspective on this topic.

[Rilles]

There is strength in surrendering.

[MarkusSweden]

I'm at stage green at the moment. Yes, you become somewhat feminine.

As you can see I have a Female photo, and I behave girly and I can't get casual sex as I could Easily in blue, But that will turn around again once in Yellow. 

You can't skip any stages, you must went through them in order, and being "girly" is not that boring to be honest.

People give me wierd looks for wearing flowers in my hair, But I'm not dependent of their approvals.

Edited June 18, 2018 by MarkusSweden

[DoubleYou]

That strength is no longer only found within oneself. Its more of a universal strength. Like nature. Which you are increasingly conscious of being a part of.

At this point you no longer care about being masculine or not. For someone at stage blue that may seem weak. But thats because being masculinity (or a false sense of it) is very important in that particular stage. But not caring at all about being masculine is probably the most masculine thing you can do. But that will only get clear when you enter stage green.

So in a sense, stage green might be the first stage where actual masculinity finally starts to shine. Embraced in the feminine.

So yeah. Stage green is only a weird/weak stage when looked at from stages blue and orange. But the thing is, people in stage green have long moved on from that simplistic way of looking at things. That's why the endless debating you see nowadays is going nowhere. Its really difficult for the two stages to really understand eachother. They're competing in completely different games.

Edited June 18, 2018 by DoubleYou

[Martin123]

36 minutes ago, WildeChilde said:

 I understand this is a necessary step to get to Stage Yellow

No thats not the reason. The reason stage green is a necessary step is because emotions, empathy, connection and togetherness are very important aspects, and very wonderful aspects of the human experience and evolution. Stage green is not a means to the stage yellow, stage green is it's own spectrum of amazing treats.

 

38 minutes ago, WildeChilde said:

Where is the strength and vitality in this mindset?

There is an immense strength to emotionality and empathy.
Emotion is the evidence of your own evolution. Until you allow yourself to feel fully you're not evolving on the deepest level. Being able to feel sadness, loneliness, anger, joy, peace, love, despair, hate, or any other emotion to the fullest is a privilege of you becoming more evolved, wiser and open than before.

PS, if you want any practical evidence of strength in this stage, it has the potential of making you into highly functional partner to your spouse, father to your children, friend or teacher.

[Leo Gura]

Yes, this is actually a big obstacle for men, because most men are so preoccupied with appearing alpha.

From all the criticism, judgment, and resistance that I see about Green, it feels like 50% of it is coming from males who have not sufficiently embodied their manhood, so they are insecure, and try to act macho, thereby demonizing Green.

Which is why I said about stage Blue: embrace your feminine side. This will also apply to stage Orange males. The power of embracing your feminine side is enormous.

To a juvenile man or "bro", Green will feel soft and weak.

I once recommended a Matt Kahn video to a PUA coaching client of mine who was stuck in stage Orange. It was a really important video about love. He refused to listen to the advice because Matt Kahn came off as "too soft and feminine".

The striving to be alpha and macho is really toxic.

I was basically unable to coach him out of his issues because he was so insistent on acting out Orange to the max. He just couldn't fathom the value of Green. And yet, all of the answers to his problems lay in Green and beyond.

The problem with Orange is that it's extremely shallow. There is no satisfaction to be found there.

[tsuki]

1 hour ago, WildeChilde said:

I understand this is a necessary step to get to Stage Yellow,

Do not treat stage Green as means to an end. You will never get there if you're seeing it as a disposable ladder from the start.
Well, unless you view any other stage like that.

1 hour ago, WildeChilde said:

Where is the strength and vitality in this mindset?

Emotions are not errors in logical reasoning. They are a manifestation of a mismatch between conscious and unconscious worldviews you hold. They are a reasoning faculty that guides you according to your unconscious compass.
If you subject yourself to your emotions and understand what they tell you, you will align your value systems and become much more integrated and therefore stronger (not in alpha sense). Stage green is a pendulum swinging 'too far' in the opposite direction from 'alpha' in pursuit of exploration of unknown territory of the Self. In order to learn, you need to explore.
Pendulum becomes still as Yellow, with the integrated Self.

Edited June 18, 2018 by tsuki

[lmfao]

@WildeChilde yeah, I think it's a weird one lol. I filter emotions differently from most people (INTP here and I'm slightly autistic maybe) and it doesn't really play a huge role in my decision making. This makes green a weird stage for me, especially when I see it in its excesses. I see stage orange as flawed and I see stage green as flawed as both stages take an idealistic view of reality.

As of right now, I dont have a good enough understanding of spiral dynamics for it to be a good way for me to conceptualise my development. I just meditate and aim to shoot for the "top", where you accept the present moment for what it is and realise that everything is already perfect. 

My unconscious self is stage orange in combination with a tad of green. But when I reach high consciousness states through meditation I become someone who's in tier 2 of spiral dynamics. I can feel this unconditional love/acceptance for everything around me. 

[WaterfallMachine]

1 hour ago, lmfao said:

@WildeChilde yeah, I think it's a weird one lol. I filter emotions differently from most people (INTP here and I'm slightly autistic maybe) and it doesn't really play a huge role in my decision making. This makes green a weird stage for me, especially when I see it in its excesses. I see stage orange as flawed and I see stage green as flawed as both stages take an idealistic view of reality.

As of right now, I dont have a good enough understanding of spiral dynamics for it to be a good way for me to conceptualise my development. I just meditate and aim to shoot for the "top", where you accept the present moment for what it is and realise that everything is already perfect. 

My unconscious self is stage orange in combination with a tad of green. But when I reach high consciousness states through meditation I become someone who's in tier 2 of spiral dynamics. I can feel this unconditional love/acceptance for everything around me. 

Haha, it was pretty weird to me. I've also got tested as INTP many times, and got formally diagnosed as autistic. I thought all those emotions were icky and gross and weird and ahhh . . . not touching them. But over time I stopped seeing emotions as opposite to logic, but as a partner to it. Without us being able to calm and regulate our emotions, we can't think as logically. And without logic to direct and structure emotions, we cannot deeply feel in our actions and thoughts in healthy ways.

There's a difference between rigid logic and rationality. A difference between irrationality and deep compassion. A difference between aggressiveness with standing up for yourself. A difference between passiveness and acceptance.

These are not the same things, and I hope you can understand them some day.  .

Edited June 18, 2018 by WaterfallMachine

[SFRL]

I agree that stage Green is difficult territory to navigate when you are a guy who is deep stage Orange with a lot of Alpha traits. 

That being said I do believe it's better to be a strong Ego then a weak Ego. Or being strong stage Orange rather then weak stage Orange. 

Spiral Dynamics is a great model. I believe in it. But it has its own traps and I think a lot of people use it as a defense mechanism. 

There are so many people that claim to be stage Green, or even stage Yellow or Turquoise for that matter. And the way I look at it is no you are really not.

Just because you can't ace it in your career or can't get laid and you decide to do mushrooms now and then and be opposed to Trump doesn't make you Turquoise or even Green for that matter. 

Also it's all cool to say you don't need money and success. But then the day comes your kids need to college and you can't support them that well. Or how are you going to adopt that poor kid from Africa? Or how are you going to visit the monks in Tibet. Or how are you how are you going to pay for those meditation retreats? Shit doesn't happen just because by itself. Then those people that have been playing the stage Green role all their life all of a sudden get real frustrated with their lack of money and success. I have seen it happen. 

Then it makes it a lot easier to full fill a purpose and transition to stage Green with the leverage you build in stage Orange. 

Just like Genghis Khan had to play by his times rules to build a civilization, people these days have to operate within stage Orange society. 

I mean sure if you are having that deep spiritual connection with a partner and are making good money the stage Green way then more power to you. 

But I don't get the sense that that's what a lot of 'stage Green' people on here or in general are doing. 

 

Edited June 18, 2018 by SFRL

[Guest Quanty]

Spiral Dynamics is so wrong in so many ways  

Same as IQ tests. 

Edited June 18, 2018 by Quanty

[MarkusSweden]

3 minutes ago, Quanty said:

Spiral Dynamics is so wrong in so many ways  

Same as IQ tests. 

How do you mean? No practical value?

[Guest Quanty]

1 minute ago, MarkusSweden said:

How do you mean? No practical value?

Good for Employers for laborers to place them in a big company per example. 

Aside from that, is just limited. Is more of a Mind catalog.

[Dogsbestfriend]

It's a classification system, a tool - isn't this something you can just do away with eventually? I don't even see the real advantage of using it to classify people and put them into certain categories when you can understand from the a more fluid and complete sense - truly seeing them?

[Guest Quanty]

Same as Personality tests are just built to ensure a system that the subject does not think for themselves because if they fail and have multiple choices, they discard them   

[SgtPepper]

I feel like I am stage blue, orange, and green all at the same time. 

Edited June 18, 2018 by SgtPepper

[Guest Quanty]

Basically, Don Edward Beck & Christopher C. Cowan took a very nice approach of making a category out of Spirituality and the levels of reality and separate them. The awakened human beings integrate all of them, all the colors, all the levels. But they did it for Marketing purposes and the Financial System. 

[Elisabeth]

On 18. 6. 2018 at 11:28 AM, WildeChilde said:

 Where is the strength and vitality in this mindset?

Imagine a student of martial arts who is just discovering how his art connects to mind, body and emotional awareness. 

Imagine a man who can finally admit to his weaknesses and ask for help. Imagine the relief people around him feel. 

Imagine a man going for a vision quest to get more direction and purpose and be a better person, alone and fasting for days. 

Imagine a man taking responsibility for his behavior towards his family, society and nature, but not out of a sense of obligation, but out of love. 

Are they weak? Or are they worthy of respect? 

Edited June 19, 2018 by Elisabeth

[WaterfallMachine]

19 hours ago, Dogsbestfriend said:

It's a classification system, a tool - isn't this something you can just do away with eventually? I don't even see the real advantage of using it to classify people and put them into certain categories when you can understand from the a more fluid and complete sense - truly seeing them?

It is rather fluid, and people who think of them as rigid classifications are using it wrongly. Many people are combinations of different stages — either throughout their entire lives, or being in specific stages in particular areas of life. 

It’s a good measure for progress — at least as an estimate. People like to argue that we’re all “special” and “unique” — as if there are no similarities between many human beings at all that allow them to collectively organize into entire civilizations with similar beliefs and cultures.

People argue against oversimplifications, but there’s also such a thing as overcomplicating your uniqueness in a way that you don’t learn as much. People who experience similar events tend to hold similar solutions — divorce, unemployment, poverty, bullying, and many others. So why not pair things up in a category?

This all stems from the beliefs that we’re only supposed to understand ourselves as individuals, but not how we’re part of different groups as well.

I’m not saying that you should only focus on how a group affects you. I’m telling you to understand how both lens of viewing the world can affect you.

19 hours ago, Quanty said:

Same as Personality tests are just built to ensure a system that the subject does not think for themselves because if they fail and have multiple choices, they discard them   

This is a misconception of personality tests. These are not meant to be used as utter predictions of yourself, but estimates. Don’t trust those people who stereotype and judge people entirely by their personality type — they give us typists a bad name. It’s a guide, not a crystal ball.

[SFRL]

I think that guy from the Osho documentary is a cool example of a stage Green male. 

The guy they interview and is doing his story. 

He was a high functioning lawyer very successful in stage Orange society. But he chose to live the stage Green life. Not by weakness but by choice. 

Very honest guy it seems as well. Very loyal. He stuck with it to the end unlike others who left when the ship started sinking. 

Manly guy, I am sure he was getting laid. But again he lived stage Green by choice not because he couldn't succeed in society. 

I was like, that's a cool guy, I could aspire to be someone like that. 

Edited June 20, 2018 by SFRL