Posted June 17, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Arman said: Is this one of those strange loops that Leo talks about? I don’t know what Leo says personally but... Causation. This is a movement of time. This is how thought/time moves... The cause “thoughts” is the effect “thought” and the effect is the cause. One and the same movement. ⭕️ The self is a self perpetuating movement of time. Edited June 17, 2018 by Faceless Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said: So all you got is ‘cause and effect and effect and cause’. That’s your third trivial answer. Count them, I labeled them each time. Joseph we are done. You are not even close to getting whats being said. There is no point in us going any further. You are not interested in communication. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, Truth Addict said: You really can't move forward in life without beliefs, and some beliefs can be better than others. You will have to choose. But you can't avoid belief. Btw, it's nice having a conversation with yo The chooser (the self) is the root of all belief. I have not one single belief. Belief is an escape from fear. And it is nice to talk with you buddy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 17, 2018 Yes ok Joseph. You can go back to your journal now Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 17, 2018 Just now, Joseph Maynor said: And controlling to boot. No need for the back and forth. You know. Let’s just let it be. Right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 17, 2018 Just now, Faceless said: The chooser (the self) is the root of all belief. I have not one single belief. Belief is an escape from fear. And it is nice to talk with you buddy And here we are running circles around forever. Maybe there is no answer to this question. The self is created by beliefs, and beliefs are created by the self. Chicken and egg dilemma. At this point, and after you saw raw reality (without beliefs), I think one should make a conscious belief, because this state of no beliefs is not beneficial, and maybe harmful to reality at large. Also, 'no beliefs' don't explain anything, so we're clueless forever or claiming to know while we truly know we're clueless. I think it is time to start believing. Believe! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 17, 2018 Just now, Joseph Maynor said: I’m trying to help you, but you run away and take it personally. I’m not taking anything personal my man. There is no real communication here. So it’s a not worth going on with you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 17, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Truth Addict said: And here we are running circles around forever. Maybe there is no answer to this question. The self is created by beliefs, and beliefs are created by the self. Chicken and egg dilemma. At this point, and after you saw raw reality (without beliefs), I think one should make a conscious belief, because this state of no beliefs is not beneficial, and maybe harmful to reality at large. Also, 'no beliefs' don't explain anything, so we're clueless forever or claiming to know while we truly know we're clueless. I think it is time to start believing. Believe! You can belive if you want. But belief implies duality and duality implies contradiction and conflict. Its up to you. Edited June 17, 2018 by Faceless Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 17, 2018 @Joseph Maynor @Faceless I think you're both talking about the same thing from different angles. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 17, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Faceless said: You can belief if you want. But belief implies duality and duality implies contradiction and conflict. Its up to you. Yes. What's the point of not believing? What's the point of living? What's the point of asking? What's the point of answering? What's the point of having or not having a point at all? You see, there are many layers of beliefs running. You just can't avoid believing. So choose your beliefs consciously. This is my advice. Inhaling contradits exhaling, and both create life (life = duality = nonduality), but who is right? Maybe everyone Edited June 17, 2018 by Truth Addict Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 17, 2018 (edited) So the conditioned mind is the self. Cause and effect being one and the same movement as the self. If we see this is an illusion, why do we continue to move dualistically?? Edited June 17, 2018 by Faceless Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, Faceless said: So the conditioned mind is the self. Causes and effect being onenand the same movement as the self. If we see this is an illusion, why do we continue to move dualistically?? I think you should replace the 'we' with 'I'. Only you shall answer your question. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 17, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Truth Addict said: Yes. What's the point of not believing? What's the point of living? What's the point of asking? What's the point of answering? What's the point of having or not having a point at all? You see, there are many layers of beliefs running. You just can't avoid believing. So choose your beliefs consciously. This is my advice. Inhaling contradits exhaling, both create life (life = duality = nonduality), but who is right? Maybe everyone I would investigate what is the nature of belief. If you want to get into that my friend. Watch belief move in yourself. This will make sense if you do that. You will see that psychologically belief has absolutely no place what so ever. As that implies a movement away from fear. The self/thought seeks security in belief to self sustain its own continuity. An illusion seeking security in an illusion. Contradiction Edited June 17, 2018 by Faceless Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 17, 2018 (edited) @Joseph Maynor @Faceless You guys are arguing over your own definitions, meanings and interpretations, just stop. Stop replying, and challenge yourself to not "help" each other because it's not gonna work. Edited June 17, 2018 by Truth Memento Mori Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 17, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Faceless said: I would investigate what is the nature of belief. If you want to get into that my friend. Watch belief move in yourself. This will make sense if you do that. You will see that psychologically belief has absolutely no place what so ever. As that implies a movement away from fear. The self/thought seeks security in belief to self sustain its own continuity. An illusion seeking security in an illusion. I actually understand that. I did many times rest in awareness (though I'm not completely aware or awake). Beliefs are no different from sight and hearing. The self wants to ground itself in illusion to feel solid and secure. Alright, we agree on that. But again, why not using beliefs to your benefit? Since even truth is an illusion. Edited June 17, 2018 by Truth Addict Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said: Are you offering a solution or just a superficial pooh-poohing of a debate you know nothing about and have no intention of participating in? Any bum off the street can say ‘is not, is too’ — or ‘boo, hooray’. Do you got any substance there, or are you just taking a cheap shot with your trite internet memes as usual. Not everything has to be serious. It's okay to have some fun Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 17, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Truth Addict said: Beliefs are no different from sight and hearing. Sight and hearing come first then there is contact, sensation, then thought comes in and there is identification/desire. How is that not different? Belief comes from the movement of thought. Edited June 17, 2018 by Faceless Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 17, 2018 @Joseph Maynor Thanks. Just saw that it was out myself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 17, 2018 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said: Are you offering a solution or just a superficial pooh-poohing of a debate you know nothing about and have no intention of participating in? Any bum off the street can say ‘is not, is too’ — or ‘boo, hooray’. Do you got any substance there, or are you just taking a cheap-shot with your trite internet memes as usual. Thanks for making me realize how pointless talking with you is Edited June 17, 2018 by Truth Memento Mori Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 17, 2018 47 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said: New video is out now! Nice he delivered! Thought he was gonna skip again this week after that 1 month off! I'll eat my words now Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
