Too much devotion to mooji

[How to be wise]

I know that mooji is an enlightened master, but this much devotion from this many people is unseen since osho. How did he make those people so devoted to him?

Watch from 1:53:28

[Dodo]

Maybe they just love his presence.

[pluto]

When you have such love and compassion in your heart, you emit an extraordinary amount of light. That light attracts those in the dark that find peace and warmth within the light. Its quite natural. Look how many followers Jesus has since he came around.

[Leo Gura]

One of the downsides to the love-centered approach to nonduality is that it attracts a lot of love-bunnies, who become very devotional to the point of idol worship. Which then creates a sort of stage Green mob mentality, which mirrors stage Blue dogmatism.

I have a friend who joined the Hare Krishnas, and it's this same kind of blind devotion mentality which leads to this kind of spiritual co-dependency. That's the danger of being part of a tight spiritual community. You become dependent on it and you stop thinking for yourself. This can easily lead to abuse and cult-like behavior, even if the guru is a nice person. Precisely what happened with Osho's community.

The guru and his followers both become dependent on each other too much.

A good guru will not let you worship him, keeping a professional distance from his students. Otherwise it becomes incestuous.

I'm guessing Matt Kahn's followers fall into this same kind of trap given his style of teaching.

I'm not saying anything negative about these gurus, just pointing out some common traps people fall into.

[Timotheus]

55 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

A good guru will not let you worship him, keeping a professional distance from his students. Otherwise it becomes incestuous.

“Be a light unto yourself; betake yourselves to no external refuge. Hold fast to the Truth. Look not for refuge to anyone besides yourselves.”

― Buddha Shakyamuni

 

 

[Prabhaker]

2 hours ago, Etagnwo said:

Mooji ignores this and has told everyone that there is no need to practice, all a devotee must do is get it. 

In the language of the intellect, devotion is a dream. In the language of the heart, devotion is true. The meditator is trying to be aware and the bhakta is trying to be totally lost. They are bound to speak diametrically opposite languages. There is no meeting point. 

2 hours ago, How to be wise said:

How did he make those people so devoted to him?

Devotion is a happening, you can't choose it. You can love somebody, without any apparent reason.

[Salvijus]

Looool I was here on that day. It's me on 1.56.15 a boy with a green t-shirt getting a hug

I remember how I cried afterward. Like a weeping whale. Mooji's presence is one of a kind. 

That hug from him was the most deliscious and most terrfiyng thing in my life

It's impossible not to love him. And that whole place is just a huge love incubator. Energy field in Monte Sahaja is just owerhelming love. I started to hug random people, like, wtf.

.

Edited June 16, 2018 by Salvijus

[MarkusSweden]

@Etagnwo Who was Papaji's guru? Was Papaji's guru Ramana Maharashi???

[Preetom]

@MarkusSweden

Yes

[Preetom]

Just now, MarkusSweden said:

@Etagnwo Who was Papaji's guru? Was Papaji's guru Ramana Maharashi???

Yes

[MarkusSweden]

20 minutes ago, Preetom said:

Yes

Didn't know that! Cool! 

I like both of them! 

[Martin123]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I'm guessing Matt Kahn's followers fall into this same kind of trap given his style of teaching.

When I was reading this I actually thought about the same thing, im a total Matt Kahn devotee that man saved my life. SO I MUST JUMP IN DEFENSIVELY TO DEFEND MY GURUS REPUTATION!

Matt being worshipped? Outrageous! He is way too mr Empath and way too enlightened for that! PFFF How dare you compare Matt and that stupid whatshisface Mooji... 

And now that  I masked my fear of you being right by my sarcasm...

I have been around Matts online community and his teaching. There definitely is some space for some self-righteous followership, I dont necessarily think it includes whoreshipping Matt, but I definitely was running around for a while telling everyone "Hey, you should love your heart..." 
I think its just a phase we all gotta go through at some point anyway

But what I think sets Matt apart from many "gurus" is the sheer efficiency he offers in service to others. He has a radioshow on Hayhouse, and every time someone calls in with an issue he channels an answer that has them in tears in matter of minutes or seconds, consistently without failure. I feel like it is such a quick returning of power to the individuals (especially because he often answers with a question, allowing the client to find the solution themselves) that it actually leaves very little wiggle room for blind faith. Another point is that hes an empath and as such doesnt get high off of worship, from my experience any time anyone has me on a pedestal it actually really puts me off.

 

Edited June 16, 2018 by Martin123

[Guest Quanty]

Flying serpent power  

[from chaos into self]

14 hours ago, Etagnwo said:

Unfortunately one of the main reasons his sangha has gotten so big is because he tells his devotees that there are no qualifications for obtaining enlightenment.  Which actually directly goes against what his gurus guru (Ramana Maharshi) said. Ramana has all along during his life went on record saying basically what traditional vedanta teachers say is that a person must have a burning desire to realise the self and must become sattvic in order to understand who they really are. 

That implies a path. A very strict path and a very high level of maturity. 

Mooji ignores this and has told everyone that there is no need to practice, all a devotee must do is get it. 

This results in shallow experiences that lead in most cases to delusional ideas that they have attained some kind of enlightenment because they had an experience. 

Not so. 

Oh, but that makes sense. Everyone seems soo wise if you know how to listen - everyone is on the path to their own enlightenment. Why could it be not so?

I guess it makes sense to want to heighten the urgency of practice - but is not every moment a practice? And I wanna know - why does one person or many people caring so much about practice exclude the validity of people who do not?

If for you, enlightenment requires a devotion to your practice, what about that makes the same true of absolutely every soul out there?

[from chaos into self]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

 That's the danger of being part of a tight spiritual community. You become dependent on it and you stop thinking for yourself. 

The guru and his followers both become dependent on each other too much.

 

Couldn't this be said of the universe we experiment? 

[from chaos into self]

4 hours ago, Martin123 said:

When I was reading this I actually thought about the same thing, im a total Matt Kahn devotee that man saved my life. SO I MUST JUMP IN DEFENSIVELY TO DEFEND MY GURUS REPUTATION!

Matt being worshipped? Outrageous! He is way too mr Empath and way too enlightened for that! PFFF How dare you compare Matt and that stupid whatshisface Mooji... 

And now that  I masked my fear of you being right by my sarcasm...

I have been around Matts online community and his teaching. There definitely is some space for some self-righteous followership, I dont necessarily think it includes whoreshipping Matt, but I definitely was running around for a while telling everyone "Hey, you should love your heart..." 
I think its just a phase we all gotta go through at some point anyway

But what I think sets Matt apart from many "gurus" is the sheer efficiency he offers in service to others. He has a radioshow on Hayhouse, and every time someone calls in with an issue he channels an answer that has them in tears in matter of minutes or seconds, consistently without failure. I feel like it is such a quick returning of power to the individuals (especially because he often answers with a question, allowing the client to find the solution themselves) that it actually leaves very little wiggle room for blind faith. Another point is that hes an empath and as such doesnt get high off of worship, from my experience any time anyone has me on a pedestal it actually really puts me off.

 

This message you wrote is a message of worship. 

 

 

but so is Leo's, and mine, haha... what am I saying? I dunno if I'm right. If I am right, then worship is just okay - it is wise to look out for the traps of worshiping. But wise to embrace worship. Uh. What do? I guess follow instinct, but not too closely. 

[Martin123]

@from chaos into self yeah Ik I told you I had to defensively jump in to defend my guru... 
I think I project parental qualities onto him because of the healing hes been able to provide, its fine it will get purified eventually.

[Martin123]

@from chaos into self At the same time I think its normal and natural to have some  sort of almost child-parent like relationship with the healer, guru or leader of your preference.

The egos are basically like children that are maturing through the process of spiritual evolution. Of course worship happens. I think it can be dangerous when the guru has a still some sort of a ego structure running that gets preserved from the false power projected onto him. 

[from chaos into self]

1 hour ago, Martin123 said:

@from chaos into self At the same time I think its normal and natural to have some  sort of almost child-parent like relationship with the healer, guru or leader of your preference.

The egos are basically like children that are maturing through the process of spiritual evolution. Of course worship happens. I think it can be dangerous when the guru has a still some sort of a ego structure running that gets preserved from the false power projected onto him. 

What is it like to have a parent/child relationship? to be a part of that? 

[Martin123]

3 minutes ago, from chaos into self said:

What is it like to have a parent/child relationship? to be a part of that? 

How sad is it that we have to ask this question?! 

I would say that a proper child-parent relationship is when the parent is able to look at the child through the eyes of unconditional love, forgiving its missteps, guiding it forward when asked, and allowing the child to figure out stuff on its own to gain independence. The child can do whatever it wants, because it is a child. It is supposed to be imperfect and confused and dumb at times. 
What many parents tend to do (mine certainly did) is to create ideas in their heads how the child should be according to them, and then desperately try to fit it into that cage of expectations and demands. Some cages are incredibly restraining and some are more loose. Some parents can use the excuse of wanting the child to develop freely for not giving it the attention, care and love it needs, and masking their lack of responsibility as some "spiritual free and cool" parenting strategy. So not to say it doesnt require effort.

When you look at the spiritual teacher who is there to guide the egos of the world into the maturity of awakening, there is often a tendency to project their own lack onto the students. They can often take on a very predatory role, and instead of asking "what can I do for you to assist your growth in the best way" they say "this is what you need to do, I am enlightened, you are an insect, you listen to me for I know better".
Its an inbalnce between femininity and masculinity.