Finding Peace in Meaninglessness

[astrokeen]

On 6/15/2018 at 4:17 PM, Outer said:

Cute. Your country is a shit hole though, you should probably vote.

I am surprised @Etagnwo wasn't offended at this flagrantly racist Trumpish comment. Or were you mimicking Trump in a tongue in cheek way?

Edited June 16, 2018 by astrokeen

[Sparkist]

7 hours ago, Etagnwo said:

No. All self realisation does is undo ignorance that there is a you arising in a world. The fact is the world arises IN YOU. This doesn't mean all phenomena are rendered nuteral - youre just not fooled into believing the conventional matrix anymore. This does not mean you can break the rules because you believe rules are an illusion. Karma is still a thing and it doesn't care whether you're enlightened or not. Everything you put out there must fructify at some point.  

I'm not saying that morality should go out of the window. I mean more about dropping unhelpful labels. Isn't this what many teachers are saying? Can't something or someone just 'be'?

I believe in Karma and I wouldn't suddenly believe that I can do whatever I want regardless and put it down to neutrality. But perhaps I could stop myself from taking pity on people, or judging people as evil or corrupt or stupid etc etc Mainly for the benefit of my own internal well-being. But also because it has a positive effect on those around me to be that way, too? To lead by example, or to attract better-suited relationships and situations.

It's not about dropping the ability to distinguish between appropriate and inappropriate, good and bad (although those particular 'labels' are subjective!) especially for survival and moral purposes (but people's morals differ greatly). I'm thinking more about recognising what things, traits, people, situations, ideas can do well without a solid label. After all, opinions differ on most subjects. What's the point in striving for one unanimous label? 

So 'meaninglessness'...negative or positive? Does it really matter? If something has no meaning to you, it may to someone else...it is whatever you think it is, based on your very specific field of experience which is different to everyone else's. Who's making the argument? My guess is the ego. Transcend it all and one would find no urge to ponder 'negative or positive'? And if I were to transcend it all perhaps I wouldn't have written all this lol Time for a cup of tea...

[Faceless]

Finding Peace in Meaninglessness...

People seek security in meaning. 

People also seek security in saying there is no meaning. 

If one seeks psychological security in coming to the conclusion that everything is meaningless, then they have subtly placed meaning as to self affirm a desired point of view that satisfies ones own sense of value and self preservation. 

An interesting movement that the self will invent to self sustain. 

Fear/Thought is very tricky indeed. 

Edited June 16, 2018 by Faceless

[StephenK]

@Etagnwo Interesting post. I'll get back to you after I've truly reflected on what you've said.

42 minutes ago, Faceless said:

Finding Peace in Meaninglessness...

People seek security in meaning. 

People also seek security in saying there is no meaning. 

That makes sense. However, the relationship seems to be more nuanced than you're making it out to be. The drive for security can motivate one towards meaning/no-meaning, however, no-meaning can be a natural insight that triggers the dropping of suffering. It's interesting, as I can see how the mind can run towards no-meaning in order to self pacify, but no-meaning can also occur spontaneously and trigger peace.

51 minutes ago, Faceless said:

Finding Peace in Meaninglessness...

If one seeks psychological security in coming to the conclusion that everything is meaningless, then they have subtly placed meaning as to self affirm a desired point of view that satisfies ones own sense of value and self preservation. 

  As I've asked other members in this thread: 'What do you mean by meaninglessness?'

[Faceless]

22 minutes ago, StephenK said:

The drive for security can motivate one towards meaning/no-meaning, however, no-meaning can be a natural insight that triggers the dropping of suffering

The drive for security is the root of insecurity. 

That alone is insight that shows the nature and motive of the need for meaning at all. 

 

One can ask themselves why do we place and depend on meaning psychologically at all? 

 

What is the root of such a movement? 

 

Could it be fear? 

 

And is not the root of fear thought? 

 

By seeing that all meaning is the creation of thought seeking security in itself is quite an insight right?

 

When one sees the whole movement of thought creating and clinging to meaning, one is not caught in the game between concluding if there is meaning or not. 

Then one does not get caught in that subtle game of dependence on thought to self sustain. 

Edited June 16, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

This is an overal orderly way of living. 

By far exceeds all meaning derived from the fragmented nature of thought. 

[StephenK]

@Faceless Yes, I can see that ultimately the dropping of any and all thoughts about meaning/meaninglessness would make sense, as meaninglessness can only exist as a concept when meaning is implied as a concept. Ultimately, one must let go of both and just be still. Also, do you think that fear drives ALL thought?    

[Matt8800]

On 6/15/2018 at 7:52 AM, StephenK said:

The idea of meaninglessness was always the thing that left me with an underlying dissatisfaction with life (existential dread, fear, etc...). However, recently I am finding tremendous relief in the meaninglessness of things. Now, whenever I get caught up in life (things getting too serious) I can look at it, see that I am creating all the meaning around it, and just let it go. Poof. Anxiety gone. Stillness remains.

Is this healthy? Does this make sense?

 

@stephenk According to Daniel Ingram's book, "Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha", you have went from the Dark Nights stage to the Equanimity stage. You are getting close to completing your first stage of awakening. 

[Faceless]

13 minutes ago, StephenK said:

Also, do you think that fear drives ALL thought?    

The movement of Fear is always in relationship the i and things, THOUGHT. (identification and attachment) 

 

 

To me thought and fear are one and the same movement. If one is unaware that thought is the thinker, then inevitably yes fear drives thought. 

Edited June 16, 2018 by Faceless

[StephenK]

@Matt8800  I wouldn't say I've reached Equanimity, as i still fall back into old patterns (dark night stuff) when I'm not attentive.

@Faceless  Is this fear you describe the same as what is referred to as Dukkha in Buddhism (a sense of unease being in all transient-phenomena/mind)?

[Faceless]

22 minutes ago, StephenK said:

Is this fear you describe the same as what is referred to as Dukkha in Buddhism (a sense of unease being in all transient-phenomena/mind)?

Lol 

i dont know. i don’t get involved with traditional teachings. 

But I know what you mean by dukkha, and get what you mean by the relationship between dukkha and transient phenomena of mind. 

Dukkha and the transient nature of mind implies what I have originally posted. To seek psychological security because the self is impermanent and seeks permanence in escaping suffering and seeking security/permanence in thought/mind. 

The self which is an illusion is impermanent and seeks security in an an illusion, which ‘it’ thinks will find permanence. 

But seeking security in the illusion of psychological permenance is to further perpetuate insecurity and therefore suffering. Fear and suffering are a creation of that doing of seeking psychological order in thought. 

 

To seek secuirty in the very mechanism that causes insecurity is to remain in fear, contradiction, conflict, confusion, and an eternal state of suffering. 

I think what I am talking about is related to what you are taking about as well. But you can observe this in yourself directly without any traditional teachings. 

Edited June 16, 2018 by Faceless

[astrokeen]

On 6/16/2018 at 8:09 PM, Outer said:

Very bad brain to think shit hole country is a racist statement.

I could level the same accusation at you - very bad thinking if you don't see it as racism. 

Trump called Nigeria a shit-hole country! So based on his thoughts about certain practices or events within Nigeria, he wrote off an entire nation with many languages, cultures, people of vastly different characters, professions, backgrounds etc. That is the essence of racism. You make negative assumptions about an entire people, e.g., muslims, based upon a few examples of people of that background. 

Edited June 23, 2018 by astrokeen

[dorg]

On 6/16/2018 at 2:52 AM, StephenK said:

However, recently I am finding tremendous relief in the meaninglessness of things. Now, whenever I get caught up in life (things getting too serious) I can look at it, see that I am creating all the meaning around it, and just let it go. Poof. Anxiety gone. Stillness remains.

Is this healthy? Does this make sense?

Marvelous! You can't get any more mentally healthy than this.

I well understood what you were saying. And no need to say anything else. What you have said says it all.

Well done!

[Forestluv]

It doesn’t have meaning and doesn’t not have meaning. Just is.