Questions about the Consciousness-only Model

[UDT]

While and after watching and thinking about the consciousness only model actualized.org presents in the video from the 02/06/18, I was left with two questions unanswered and I think these will be the forever unknown.

1) Why does consciousness create sepparation for something like our human experience? So that a seeker (like you & Leo) needs to go trough an exensive time extensive suffering to partly realign for a few hours?

2) What in the world does consciousness want from its sepparated forms of being? Clearly, striving for awakening or realignment can´t be the purpose if alignment was the original state! So was consciousness forced into sepparation?

3) If consciousness is infinite and the only thing there (thus gave birth to itself), how can you be sure there is not a supra consciousness which created our consciousness?

4) WHY?

 

These popped up in my head.

 

Cheers!

Edited June 11, 2018 by UDT

[B_Naz]

2 hours ago, UDT said:

1) Why does consciousness create sepparation for something like our human experience? So that a seeker (like you & Leo) needs to go trough an exensive time extensive suffering to partly realign for a few hours?

It's actually the human experience/understanding that causes the separation. Consciousness is universal and infinite, your human experience isn't. Your human "experience" is limiting and that is why you feel the separation, when there isn't one in the first place. But don't forget, the human "experience" is also part of consciousness. Consciousness isn't doing the separation, and it feels like there is a separation, when there isn't.

2 hours ago, UDT said:

2) What in the world does consciousness want from its sepparated forms of being? Clearly, striving for awakening or realignment can´t be the purpose if alignment was the original state! So was consciousness forced into sepparation?

Some people say the Original state is for survivability. It happened because of evolution. Personally, I think our "thoughts/ego" aren't "consciousness" as you describe it, but are memory. I think there is a much more deeper meaning of consciousness that we can be aware of because we're made of it, and it is something we haven't experienced yet. When I say experience, I mean without thought/ego. It could even mean we can't experience it, who knows. It's something that can't be understood.

The other questions, I have no idea about. WHY? There is no why, it's PURE MAGIC!

This is just my personal opinion

[UDT]

1 hour ago, B_Naz said:

It's actually the human experience/understanding that causes the separation. Consciousness is universal and infinite, your human experience isn't. Your human "experience" is limiting

Yes but then think further: You see when we also agree on the possibility of infinite intelligence within consciousness, then why the fuck did consciousness create creation (and thus sepparation which is the reason for our existence). You cannot say that consciousness did not create creation but we as Egos have done it ourselves. Then you would assume the EGO came before consciousness came, but no its reverse! Unity was first, then came duality as unity.

 

Was Duality first or was it Unity?

Nothing can be first as both are dependent upon another. So the solution is, there is only existence. There is no no-existence, as it would be impossible! So out of existence, out of infinite intelligence, there came duality, thus us, ...WHY?

[B_Naz]

Creation in the sense of what? We didn't create anything, not ego, not the consciousness. To create something is a materialistic way of looking things. Nothing came before consciousness because consciousness is No-thing. It's not made up of anything, so it cannot be created by a certain something. If it was created, it would imply it is the essence and is the thing it was made from.

It's like a chair being made up of wood, the chair is not a chair, calling it a chair is a identification. In actuality, it's just made up of wood, so we can call it wood. 

But this can't be applied to consciousness. There is nothing that created it, because it would apply it is the essence of that creation, like the chair being essence of the wood. Our ego did create the identity of "creation" because of it's materialism.

Intelligence is not the same intelligence as we think of

[Leo Gura]

Consciousness is unlimited, so it creates every possible thing, the same way that a gas will expand to occupy every corner of its container. But consciousness has no container, so it just keeps creating forever.

[Nahm]

7 hours ago, UDT said:

1) Why does consciousness create sepparation for something like our human experience? So that a seeker (like you & Leo) needs to go trough an exensive time extensive suffering to partly realign for a few hours?

Why would something alone create the ilusion of not alone? 

2) What in the world does consciousness want from its sepparated forms of being? Clearly, striving for awakening or realignment can´t be the purpose if alignment was the original state! So was consciousness forced into sepparation?

What is other than infinite which infinte could want? Look at that body, thats finite in appearance.  The awareness is infinite. There’s nothing to measure or measure it with.  

3) If consciousness is infinite and the only thing there (thus gave birth to itself), how can you be sure there is not a supra consciousness which created our consciousness?

That loops ya back to #1  

4) WHY?

 

[UDT]

22 hours ago, Nahm said:

Why would something alone create the ilusion of not alone? 

yes, why? And please dont say unity felt lonely

22 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Conscious is unlimited, so it creates every possible thing, the same way that a gas will expand to occupy every corner of its container. But consciousness has no container, so it just keeps creating forever.

So if it is unlimited, why does it has to create at all? Why cant it limit itself to unity.

 

You say, becasue of infinity, it has to create, so we are back at nihilism. We are (and by that I mean I, you, it, god, everything) experiencing a complete random set of restraints which form our dualistic experience. Ok, for what? For what do we need exactly this is one variation of infinity (and by this I mean your exact life) ? Why the fuck would infinite consciousness not stay in unity for ever?

What I want to say is that I do not see the reason why unity would have ever created duality?

Just because its infinite and thus has to create everything? Why cant it be infinite in its unity?

 

Which leads me to a doubt that creeped up:

Can there be consciousness without duality?

I can´t be conscious of nothing. Ok, because I am of the Ego. But then I have to assume that consciousness can be conscious of nothing.

 

When you trip @Leo Gura and you say you were absolute infinity, meaning everything, meaning nothingness, shouldnt it be the same as falling asleep and waking up? And If not, how can you be sure not to doubt your experience?

 

Thanks

 

 

[Nahm]

@UDT You don’t have to feel lonely to choose not to be alone.

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, UDT said:

yes, why? And please dont say unity felt lonely

So if it is unlimited, why does it has to create at all? Why cant it limit itself to unity.

It HAS limited itself to unity. What you're missing is that unity = disunity. True unity contains all possible disunities. In the same way that true freedom contains all possible forms of enslavement. Think about it. There is no true freedom unless you are free to enslave others. (Freedom within human governments is not freedom, but the opposite: limitation). The function of government is to limit freedom. Because true freedom is way too radical and dangerous for the ego to cope with. True freedom means death, which is the last thing you want.

Unity doesn't create, it just is. Creation isn't a process, creation is unity. Creation appears to look like a process from your POV because you are under the illusion that time is real. In fact, time is a concept.

Why does God allow evil? Because God is all-allowing. God allows EVERYTHING. God cannot discriminate. Which literally means that God cannot see evil. To God, evil cannot exist, other than as delusion. Because in TRUTH, nothing is evil. Evil can only exist as falsehood. For God to create evil, it has to lie to itself that evil exists. And that's how evil is born, as an illusion within the eyes of God incarnated as a human being. Only human beings are deluded enough to see evil in the world. God is too smart to see evil, so it has to make itself stupid (born as a human) to experience evil. A human is just a retarded version of God. Why would God retard itself? Because God is unlimited, it must allow every possible thing, including every possible retardation of itself, from a microbe to an ant to a monkey to a human.

But Leo, I don't like being retarded! Well, that's cause you're a selfish retard. If you were really smart, you'd see retardation is necessary to complete the whole. There cannot be infinity without retardation.

Quote

Ok, for what? For what do we need exactly this is one variation of infinity (and by this I mean your exact life) ? Why the fuck would infinite consciousness not stay in unity for ever?

What I want to say is that I do not see the reason why unity would have ever created duality?

Just because its infinite and thus has to create everything? Why cant it be infinite in its unity?

That's very simple. What you're failing to comprehend (because you are stuck in the duality paradigm) is that nonduality and duality are IDENTICAL!

There exists only one thing: Infinity. That's where you find yourself sitting right now. Smack in the middle of this infinity.

This infinity includes nothing, and everything simultaneously.

God doesn't really "create" anything. Creation is not something that occurs through time. Creation is NOT a process. Creation is. Like a giant static singularity. God is all things all the time. God cannot help being all things because that's what limitlessness means. To be unlimited is to be EVERYTHING all at once.

Duality was never really created. It was always just an aspect of nonduality.

ONENESS is so ONE that it contains all possible divisions of itself. In the same way that pure white light contains all the colors of rainbow inside itself. White light doesn't create red, blue, green, yellow, etc. White light is IDENTICAL to red, blue, green, yellow, etc.

A carton of eggs contains: 0 eggs, 1 egg, 2 eggs, 3 eggs, 4 eggs, 5 eggs, 6 eggs, 7 eggs, 8 eggs, 9 eggs, 10 eggs, 11 eggs, and 12 eggs -- ALL AT THE SAME TIME! A carton of eggs does not create 3 eggs. It is BEING 3 eggs already! That's what carton means. Is it true that there are 3 eggs in a full carton of eggs? Yes!

Now imagine an infinite carton of eggs.

You are one of those eggs, and also the whole carton.

Quote

When you trip @Leo Gura and you say you were absolute infinity, meaning everything, meaning nothingness, shouldnt it be the same as falling asleep and waking up? And If not, how can you be sure not to doubt your experience?

It's the opposite. It's like waking up from being asleep. Asleep is what you are now. You are asleep to the fact that many-ness is identical to ONENESS. You're failing to notice the ONENESS, because you believe you're alive and separate from other things.

According to duality, there is a difference between duality and nonduality. But according to nonduality, there isn't.

[WindInTheLeaf]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

But Leo, I don't like being retarded! Well, that's cause you're a selfish retard. If you were really smart, you'd see retardation is necessary to complete the whole. There cannot be infinity without retardation.

Mental or physical? And I might be retarded but at least not as retarded as the next guy!

Could all-there-is be one if it was not many and whole if it was not fractured?

Edited June 12, 2018 by WindInTheLeaf

[Leo Gura]

24 minutes ago, WindInTheLeaf said:

Mental or physical?

Both

[Ananta]

28 minutes ago, WindInTheLeaf said:

And I might be retarded but at least not as retarded as the next guy!

If you know your retarded, how retarded could you really be?

 

 

 

Edited June 12, 2018 by Anna1

[UDT]

On 12/06/2018 at 11:23 PM, Leo Gura said:

That's very simple. What you're failing to comprehend (because you are stuck in the duality paradigm) is that nonduality and duality are IDENTICAL!

Thank you, YES I UNDERSTAND IT, AND I FEEL IT BUT I CANNOT SEE IT!

 

Anyway thank you, your reply actually helped me, props to you Leo, you are a good version of god ha.