Why Enlightenment

[A way to Actualize]

it seems to be that my process can't be undone. I am here, mostly without ego (80% of my). I am transitioning, and it deels comfortable yet uncomfortable. It is uncomfortable to not feel such a wide range of emotions. I keep asking myself: won't I feel that divers range of emotions anymore? To be constantly in love is amazing, but I like diversity too much.

I have some questions from which I hope you could answer me.

1 do enlightenment not experience a wide range of emotions? Like adventures, or you feel hyped up in a concert.

2 do enlightenment people not experience the fullfilment from contibution? Since they are not identified with the material they make. When I make something on guitar, I do not feel that enthousiasm, it is just empty expression.

That stage of peace I acquired is different. That feeling of walking alone in a city at evening with music in (that is somewhat dense music), is not there anymore.

For all PUA guys, god mode is not there anymore.

It is so easy to say goodbye to shallow stuff and feelings of not being creative, feeling stuck, hated or tired by circumstances.

But it is hard to say goodbye to things you enjoyed, the emotional ups. With emotional ups I mean more how you feel after being with friends, who you have a deep connection with; or making a program (Life Purpose Course for example), and not feel the sense of contribution. To listen to music that represents negative emotions, and not feel the roughness from hate in that.

To not experience the crying Leo has in his videos he has every week. I had that also for a while, to not experience that would be a bit awful. To not feel the excitement of playing a show, to never experience the excitement of standing at Rock Am Ring.

Why would I let it go, or you. It already happened, it peeled away automatically for me. Like just for almost a year experienced the exploration of personal egoïc freedom and to strive for success. Than instantly going to see everything as art and relationships (to everything in the world). That was just for 2 months and now I am transitioning into the no-self. I am on the edge of two phases.

As Charlie Chaplin said: 'Do not be sad that it is over, but be happy it happened.' That does apply here. But it all happened too soon. The new information are teachings that were needed were handled to me and my progression sky-rocketed.

This is not something out of thoughts, I feel like it is automatically written and realized.

It kind of feels like being in free roam mode in a game like Skyrim, the adventure is over, (I played games long time ago). Every stage of the adventure is fun, but the end is empty. It was fun while it lasted, but now there is nothing. It is a analogy with enlightenment. There is still an adventure, but it is mor a moment to moment thing than achieving or creating something specactular

Also what I would like to hear, next to answers of the two questions and general reaction,why would you leave this behind? I never understood why people were excited about enlightenment, it is more true, with selflessness. It is not you are completely selfless, only there is a 'we' instead of 'me, me, me, me!'

I feel authentic as never before, that is gift. I left the coolest thing of life: the wide range of feelings and vibes for one state that keeps being the same and empty. Why? Why would you want leave that? I did not want to leave that, but it happened, and keeps grounding in my reality.

All this happened without me: I could not prevent it. I do not know what to say. I am not lost, but there some confusion that is not felt of the fact that my reality had changed and it may not be completely a better thing.

Edited March 13, 2016 by A way to Actualize

[jjer94]

Quote

1 do enlightenment not experience a wide range of emotions? Like adventures, or you feel hyped up in a concert.

I think you're getting confused about what emotions really are. If I were you, I would make the distinction between emotions and feelings. Feelings are bodily sensations that occur during certain activities during the day, usually in reaction to the activity. Emotions are the conversation about that feeling. If you haven't noticed, attaching yourself to emotions leads to suffering. If the conversation in your head is a good one, there will eventually be a bad one to counteract it. If you take emotions too seriously and identify with the thought-stories, you ride the ups and downs and suffer as a consequence.

Once you go along this journey long enough, you start to think less (have less emotions) and feel through more. You abide in what's real, the feeling, and forget about the conversation in your head about that feeling. I think that would make life even more enjoyable, would it not? The feeling that accompanies depression is just another feeling, and you can learn to be happy with it just as much as excitement. How awesome is that? Emotions are in the world of duality, feelings are non-dual. 

"Don't think. Feel!" -- Bruce Lee

Quote

2 do enlightenment people not experience the fullfilment from contibution? Since they are not identified with the material they make. When I make something on guitar, I do not feel that enthousiasm, it is just empty expression.

I can relate to this question because I'm a songwriter myself. The enthusiasm that you get for the idea of contributing is gone, but that's just an emotion. What happens when you write a crappy song or someone dislikes your music or you feel that you're no longer contributing? You suffer. What may start happening now is a general feeling of fulfillment while you're doing it. You're doing it for the sake of doing it. You're not doing it to acquire status or contribution or recognition, what you originally thought was happiness. You're doing it because you are already happy.

I write songs not because I want validation as to how good they are. I write them because I like words, wordplay, and how not-knowing can magically lead to a finished product. I like painting a picture through sounds. I like the sound of my acoustic guitar, and I like to see how many different timbres I can get. But even those reasons are made up. Why do anything really? There's no reason other than for the sake of doing it. That's life. Living for the sake of living. It's really liberating once you can fully grok that point.

Quote

Also what I would like to hear, next to answers of the two questions and general reaction,why would you leave this behind?

Why anything? Because. The "why" question is a human construct. You'll never find a true answer to a "why" question. You can only speculate.

The dream state is nice and cozy for most people. Sure, you may have wet the bed, but you can handle it no problem. But some people just don't like the stench and want out. Maybe we couldn't not leave it behind because our dream slowly became a nightmare.

Eventually, everyone will have no choice but to leave the dream state of duality. For most, that happens when the body dissolves. We're just doing it early.

Cheers!

Edited March 13, 2016 by jjer94
Added that tasty Bruce Lee quote

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, A way to Actualize said:

I am here, mostly without ego (80% of my)

Lol

Just look at this bald-faced lie!

Hint: confusion is only a feature of the ego. Without ego there cannot be confusion.

[A way to Actualize]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Lol

Just look at this bald-faced lie!

Hint: confusion is only a feature of the ego. Without ego there cannot be confusion.

It is self-deceptive and indeed there is a transition. I experience great portions of my day of my day without a self. I do not feel confused, but there is this like notion that things have changed and I need to get accostumed to it. Confusion is not the right word to use, more 'change'.

Still I wish you success of becoming a yogi.

[Leo Gura]

@A way to Actualize What you're missing is the part about enlightenment being just a BEGINNING, not an end state. It will take a decade for your psychology to fully adapt to the revelations of truth. And you'll have much deeper enlightenments in the future too!

For the truly wise, the spiritual path NEVER ends! Only a fool has an enlightenment experience or two and thinks he's arrived.

[A way to Actualize]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@A way to Actualize What you're missing is the part about enlightenment being just a BEGINNING, not an end state. It will take a decade for your psychology to fully adapt to the revelations of truth. And you'll have much deeper enlightenments in the future too!

For the truly wise, the spiritual path NEVER ends! Only a fool has an enlightenment experience or two and thinks he's arrived.

Indeed, it are really no experiences anymore. Now it is mostly a constant state from which there is no turning back. It is indeed not the end and still a 'light' version or beginning of what is coming eventually. But is a bit of the thing that the journey till now was a bit fast and felt that I did not yet had fully explored stages in the evolution of my life.

In your case you had explored every stage till now extensively. Till a point where now is the conclusion that enlightenment is really the only thing.

In this case it was more of just like being rushed trough the stage of wanting to achieve things (making albums, playing at big stages). You need some years to fully develop that. And I went a that journey and before achieving those things, my perspective and percieving completely changed. And it repeated with another stage. It is not a bad thing. But it feels like skipping parts of the movie.

Leo, do all enlightened people become teachers of truth or living somewhere secluded? Or are they able to be musicians? I do not know.

Edited March 13, 2016 by A way to Actualize

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, A way to Actualize said:

it seems to be that my process can't be undone. I am here, mostly without ego (80% of my). I am transitioning, and it deels comfortable yet uncomfortable. It is uncomfortable to not feel such a wide range of emotions. I keep asking myself: won't I feel that divers range of emotions anymore? To be constantly in love is amazing, but I like diversity too much.

I have some questions from which I hope you could answer me.

1 do enlightenment not experience a wide range of emotions? Like adventures, or you feel hyped up in a concert.

2 do enlightenment people not experience the fullfilment from contibution? Since they are not identified with the material they make. When I make something on guitar, I do not feel that enthousiasm, it is just empty expression.

That stage of peace I acquired is different. That feeling of walking alone in a city at evening with music in (that is somewhat dense music), is not there anymore.

For all PUA guys, god mode is not there anymore.

It is so easy to say goodbye to shallow stuff and feelings of not being creative, feeling stuck, hated or tired by circumstances.

But it is hard to say goodbye to things you enjoyed, the emotional ups. With emotional ups I mean more how you feel after being with friends, who you have a deep connection with; or making a program (Life Purpose Course for example), and not feel the sense of contribution. To listen to music that represents negative emotions, and not feel the roughness from hate in that.

To not experience the crying Leo has in his videos he has every week. I had that also for a while, to not experience that would be a bit awful. To not feel the excitement of playing a show, to never experience the excitement of standing at Rock Am Ring.

Why would I let it go, or you. It already happened, it peeled away automatically for me. Like just for almost a year experienced the exploration of personal egoïc freedom and to strive for success. Than instantly going to see everything as art and relationships (to everything in the world). That was just for 2 months and now I am transitioning into the no-self. I am on the edge of two phases.

As Charlie Chaplin said: 'Do not be sad that it is over, but be happy it happened.' That does apply here. But it all happened too soon. The new information are teachings that were needed were handled to me and my progression sky-rocketed.

This is not something out of thoughts, I feel like it is automatically written and realized.

It kind of feels like being in free roam mode in a game like Skyrim, the adventure is over, (I played games long time ago). Every stage of the adventure is fun, but the end is empty. It was fun while it lasted, but now there is nothing. It is a analogy with enlightenment. There is still an adventure, but it is mor a moment to moment thing than achieving or creating something specactular

Also what I would like to hear, next to answers of the two questions and general reaction,why would you leave this behind? I never understood why people were excited about enlightenment, it is more true, with selflessness. It is not you are completely selfless, only there is a 'we' instead of 'me, me, me, me!'

I feel authentic as never before, that is gift. I left the coolest thing of life: the wide range of feelings and vibes for one state that keeps being the same and empty. Why? Why would you want leave that? I did not want to leave that, but it happened, and keeps grounding in my reality.

All this happened without me: I could not prevent it. I do not know what to say. I am not lost, but there some confusion that is not felt of the fact that my reality had changed and it may not be completely a better thing.

You will learn to create in the way that children do, only with the skills and talents that adulthood has helped you develop. All things that aren't genuine will drop away effortlessly. Keep in mind that all of the egoic positive feelings that you had were only relatively effective solutions to the ego's problems. The main positive emotion they ever offered was relief. Pure inspiration and joy will come in its place, as you transcend the ego.

But to offer a word of caution, it's important to recognize that the belief that you're 80% enlightened is still a belief. It is the content of a thought. Thus it isn't the Truth. I recommend adopting the idea that you don't know if you're enlightened or not. Just seek Truth and practice non-resistance and unconditional acceptance of the present moment. Then see what happens, without preconceived notions.

If you have to force yourself to give up your ego or any of the other perceived positives that come from the egoic perspective, it isn't enlightenment. Be as egoic as you like on the way to enlightenment, but be mindful as you go about your day. Be aware of your thoughts and how they weave and re-weave your self-concept. Don't resist ego. It is part of reality. Accept it. If you feel like you want to feel the emotions associated with having a strong ego, it still means that ego is in effect, and that's 100% okay. To feel a negative way about getting rid of the ego, means that you are resisting ego, and resistance is the opposite of enlightenment. Practice love toward the ego. When you truly transcend ego, the concerns you're sharing now will be completely irrelevant. All that will be left is pure unconditional love of what is.

So, nix the idea of progress toward enlightenment and put aside your fears, and apply 'Truth-seeking' and 'unconditional acceptance of what is.'

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, A way to Actualize said:

Leo, do all enlightened people become teachers of truth or living somewhere secluded?

No, most don't even become teachers.

[werlight]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No, most don't even become teachers.

@A way to Actualize Hi ! Two words: Find Balance

Let me share with you something I wrote when I went through the fase you are going through ..

-----

Imagine yourself as a great pianist. All your life you have played what you think were all the notes in your piano. Highs and lows. And you have learned to play amazing music.

When you remember who you are you become aware that your piano is much larger than you thought. You can play incredibly beautiful notes that you never even knew existed.

Initially, you will want to spend as much time as possible exploring the new notes in your piano. Its normal. But don't forget the other notes. Every note is equally beautiful, not only the new ones !

Play all your notes. Fully embrace your humanity, as well as your divinity, all of who you are, and make amazing music to be enjoyed by everyone around you.

Claiming we are only our spirit is as wrong as claiming we are only our body. As long as we are human we are both and both are equally important and equally beautiful.

Stay close to everything that makes you human. Embrace your family and friends. Hug and kiss your loved ones, express your love and joy. This will bring you happiness and peace. Your life and everything in it, is a gift of love for you.

So enjoy it !

[werlight]

As for you questions:

1 do enlightenment not experience a wide range of emotions? Like adventures, or you feel hyped up in a concert.

Big Yes !  .. enlightenment brings you closer to your feelings and emotions. All of them.. We are not here to remain in a perpetual state of bliss.. if this were the case  we would of stayed were we where before we came to life. We are Human ! We are meant to experience all human emotions ! Friendship, Falling in Love, Sex, Laughter, Joy, Sadness, good and bad moods etc..

You are going through the process.. as @Leo Gura said. The goal of this fase is to drop resisitance and find balance and acceptance.. in this case trying to remain in a certain state of mind all the time..

The key is to be mindful of your own state of mind knowing and accepting that it is subject to change. That's how you let go of resistance and find peace.

 

2 do enlightenment people not experience the fullfilment from contibution? Since they are not identified with the material they make. When I make something on guitar, I do not feel that enthousiasm, it is just empty expression.

Another Big Yes ! .. Knowing who you are doesnt mean you have to live in a cave ! Nothing in your life has to change. You dont have to quit your job, move to india, change your eating habits, or the way you speak .. etc

And yes contributing to society is still a very important part of your life. And you can definetly still enjoy it.

[werlight]

In summary,

Enlightenment is not about subtracting things from your life ! Its about adding everything there IS and them accepting it as part of who you ARE..

[Philip]

@A way to Actualize I'm not close to enlightenment at all, but I have done many hours of mindfulness work and meditation, sometimes focused on observing the self.

My conclusion : Equanimity feels good.

And what you have sounds more like emotional repression or a subtle depressive state. You sound like you're losing equanimity instead of gaining some.

Your post itself seems to contradict the fact that you're advancing on the spiritual path.

But maybe the path is more rocky than I thought it was. Maybe your concerns come from the tension in a part of your ego that's about to break off.

But personally, at this point, I would be strategically revisiting my method of enlightenment work, just in case.

[A way to Actualize]

15 hours ago, Philip said:

@A way to Actualize I'm not close to enlightenment at all, but I have done many hours of mindfulness work and meditation, sometimes focused on observing the self.

My conclusion : Equanimity feels good.

And what you have sounds more like emotional repression or a subtle depressive state. You sound like you're losing equanimity instead of gaining some.

Your post itself seems to contradict the fact that you're advancing on the spiritual path.

But maybe the path is more rocky than I thought it was. Maybe your concerns come from the tension in a part of your ego that's about to break off.

But personally, at this point, I would be strategically revisiting my method of enlightenment work, just in case.

It is good now, this topic doesn't apply anymore. There was just a leetting go of old beliefs and world view. Dark night of the soul. It is okay now.