Maslow's Pyramid Feels Lonely

[Edkens]

It has been 7 months since I've started watching Leo's video. He made quite an impression on me. So much so I made a commitment to self- development  for the the rest of my life. And that's where it all started.

Personal development requires a lot of dedication, and personally for me, huge quantities of alone time. It puts me in that state of constant change. And the consequence is that I can't no longer connect nor relate with my peers anymore. I have became a stranger to my family and friends and at some point to myself. It's like everyone, including me is watching me evolve without being able to recognize me.

This constant state of change is quite uncomfortable and painful too. Is anyone here going through this feeling of loneliness?

Edited March 13, 2016 by Edkens

[Guest]

@Edkens@EdkensThat doesn't sound too healthy.  You should at least be able to function normally while doing self help. Isolation isn't the answer. Learning to tolerate them as you individuate from the herd is your best bet

[Ajax]

@Edkens That's great news! Actualization is all about overcoming difficulties and facing new challenges. 

Guess what? You got one right now, so use what you learned to overcome it.

After all if you can't use your tools, why have them? If you don't have the tools, how can you continue?

[A way to Actualize]

@Edkens What exactly do you do for things to develop yourself?

[Edkens]

3 hours ago, Nomad said:

@Edkens@EdkensThat doesn't sound too healthy.  You should at least be able to function normally while doing self help. Isolation isn't the answer. Learning to tolerate them as you individuate from the herd is your best bet

Thank you so much Nomad. I'll try to. The thing is I would have liked to talk to them about those ideas but it seems like everyone else is more interested in knowing what Beyoncé had for dinner last week. Those small talks are suffocating...

[Edkens]

3 minutes ago, A way to Actualize said:

@Edkens What exactly do you do for things to develop yourself?

The past 3 months I read: Emotional intelligence 2.0 . The six pillars of self-esteem by Nathaniel Branden. Also I'm an avid listener of TedTalks and some other philosophy podcasts.

I have tried self-developement through awareness of people's behavior trying to go to parties and other social events but it quickly exhaust me since I'm highly introverted. 

So that's that...Why the question?

[Edkens]

3 hours ago, d1ajax said:

@Edkens That's great news! Actualization is all about overcoming difficulties and facing new challenges. 

Guess what? You got one right now, so use what you learned to overcome it.

After all if you can't use your tools, why have them? If you don't have the tools, how can you continue?

Yes indeed. I need to master those tools and try acquiring more if necessary. 

Argh the emotional labor is real. Hehe. I'm grateful for that forum. It's like a global support community.

 Thank you for taking the time to reply. It is really appreciated.

[Guest]

@Edkens @Edkens Can I give you a pointer? Just ignore it if it doesn't fit you right now. But I'd like to mention it anyway because I think a lot of people here would benefit. 

I can relate to your issue here. I too found it tough when I switched hobbies and decided to understand myself. It's horrible because suddenly everyone around me suddenly seemed like morons.  And for a long time people used to irritate the shit out of me. I stopped going out because I couldn't handle the selfishness and shallowness and the pain these people seemed to inflict on themselves and each other. 

I was in a self imposed exile for years. And this is a normal part of the process. Developmental "science" says that the subject of the current level of development becomes the object of the subject of the next level of development. (See Robert Keegan). In layman's language this means, who I think I am right now must be looked at, deconstructed, put back together and transcended. Once transcendence has happened then I become Nomad version 2. Nomad version 1 is now part of me, but not all of me. I now see more than I did before. My emotional life is richer. My behaviour has matured. Everything matures once a developmental stage has been passed through successfully. 

Part of this process is sorting out all the unfinished business of previous stages. So it gets messy. Depression and alienation is pretty much an ongoing theme during growth. 

So I want to assure you and everyone here dealing with this all goes through this process of disidentifying with the mob and the group think, and essentially our "old self". It's a necessary but unpleasant part of the work. 

But there will come a time when you reach a stage of acceptance.  You will mature, and those people will cease to bother you. Because you eventually understand the pluralism of life. You will see eventually that these people are just doing what they think is right. They have no idea of our struggles, or even think they might be at all wounded. They just ARE who they are, because that's their own version of self esteem. Its hard to explain it, but eventually you just end up realising that you have been the aggressor all that time (unintentionally because you had to do it to grow). Aggression is expecting others to be what we want them to be, to live upto our ideals. But because we think we're the enlightened ones it seems like they are the ones who are doing " wrong".

For us on the messy journey they ARE wrong for us at the time. But eventually you will get to a place where you can see that there is in fact no right or wrong. Just perspectives. And that's a real good place to be. Other people might not see that they are doing anything wrong. If they are impacting you its good no assertively tell them how they impact you, if they argue then you can assume they are wounded children.  Would you adjust for them too to meet their needs even if they can't assert their needs in constructive ways? After all, there is no right or wrong, just perspectives. 

So you're right, it's going to take hard work. And the hard work is what you seem to be coming up against now. 

 

Edited March 14, 2016 by Nomad

[Edkens]

Nomad your reply is very clear and well put together. I understand every paragraph and I could not have agreed more.

You are right. It's all about perspective and I should not expect the world to be on the same path that I am right now. 

I guess I expected my peers to be understanding and respectful of the process that I'm going through. It was probably quite arrogant of mine since I'm the one changing.

It's probably best if I keep a personal journal about those philosophical and self development things until I can share them with somebody interested or just put what I've learned to good use around me instead of bothering people. Nobody wants to be a party pooper. Hehe

Again thank you Nomad for your answer! 

[Kevin Dunlop]

What you are doing is breaking down the formerly trained mind and retraining it with new information. This process of mind busting can make you feel crazy because what used to hold it together is being gotten rid of so that a new structure - the one you are inventing for yourself - can be installed. It is normal to change and not know how to be with such profound changes. Youll also have to learn how to be the new person you are inventing. Have fun with it take time to adapt, dont worry. I see this a a sign of real progress that many dont reach because they stick with their original comfortable ways never wanting to question the training they percieve to be themselves. The instability will giveway to a lighter more flexable consciousness with the realization that you are not the training you have had you are that which was trained and can retrain yourself now. Way to go. With other people enjoy your time together be curious about who they are and what is really going on for them, you learn about them and you learn about yourself. The stranger you have become is only a more complete version of yourself, the self you used to be was not you, just a collection of ways of being that now you realize was very incomplete. 

[FindingPeace]

16 hours ago, Edkens said:

And the consequence is that I can't no longer connect nor relate with my peers anymore. I have became a stranger to my family and friends and at some point to myself. It's like everyone, including me is watching me evolve without being able to recognize me.

This is a fairly normal consequence to self-development and something that has cropped up in the forum in other posts. It is a consequence of the fact that you are doing something that other people generally don't do. It is very self-focussed and outside of the norms. So you inherently find yourself feeling slightly detached from others, even those closest to you. They won't so easily understand what you are doing and why you are doing. As time goes on you will transend the norms of social conditioning and the lower-awareness of others so you will have less interest in engaging with others at their level.

Many others have reported feeling the same way. The key, though, is to find a way to continue relating to others at their level whilst not allowing it to influence or withold you from your own progress.

Don't get caught in the 'crab mentality':

 

[Guest]

@FindingPeace Thanks man. I like the crab analogy too. Never heard of that one. 

[FindingPeace]

13 minutes ago, Nomad said:

@FindingPeace Thanks man. I like the crab analogy too. Never heard of that one. 

I posted this other one somewhere else on here but here it is again:

 

[Isle of View]

Here is how I handle it.

I honor their level of insight. The reason why they're not at the level as you are, or are not going in the direction you do, is, they didn't decide (yet) that there is something wrong with the way they are. And that may be very true for them. Maybe they're better off not "waking up". We just don't know.

See, your decision to go up was self-determined. It was your own decision, maybe inspired by something you've read or a video on you tube. But it was your decision nontheless, your longing for more insight, more actualization of your true self (or whatever it may be that you aspire).

Honor the fact that you are at a new level now. And honor them for their decisions. 

It will be much easier for you to let go if you find a way to honor their own views on life. 

Your insecurities will fade away with time. You will know to what lenghts you can go with the ones you love -- but only if you take them as they are. 
Every person on earth thinks to some degree that their way is "the way", "the right way" or "the only way". The more we wake up the more we see the correctness of many ways for different people. We unstuck ourselves from being the "my way is THE way" and learn to appreciate that others may be right aswell, without at the same time sacrificing our integrity and what truth we've found for ourself.

When you realize that all people are actually different, you won't feel so different anymore. We are, after all, all unique beings. Meet the people as unique beings without the idea at the back of your head that they are part of a "borg". Life becomes easier when you talk and regard them in that way.

You follow your path and embrace their path (for them). You will feel more at ease and peace when you embrace them as they are.

It may sound a bit cliché, but that is what really works. You will get what you send out. When you send out that they're crabs they will treat you like that. If you think they're holding you back, they will do just that. If you embrace them, they will more likley embrace you. And I don't mean running around and telling everybody how much you embrace them. It's an inside job.

Cheers :-)
~Chris

 

 

 

[Edkens]

49 minutes ago, Isle of View said:

Here is how I handle it.

I honor their level of insight. The reason why they're not at the level as you are, or are not going in the direction you do, is, they didn't decide (yet) that there is something wrong with the way they are. And that may be very true for them. Maybe they're better off not "waking up". We just don't know.

See, your decision to go up was self-determined. It was your own decision, maybe inspired by something you've read or a video on you tube. But it was your decision nontheless, your longing for more insight, more actualization of your true self (or whatever it may be that you aspire).

Honor the fact that you are at a new level now. And honor them for their decisions. 

It will be much easier for you to let go if you find a way to honor their own views on life. 

Your insecurities will fade away with time. You will know to what lenghts you can go with the ones you love -- but only if you take them as they are. 
Every person on earth thinks to some degree that their way is "the way", "the right way" or "the only way". The more we wake up the more we see the correctness of many ways for different people. We unstuck ourselves from being the "my way is THE way" and learn to appreciate that others may be right aswell, without at the same time sacrificing our integrity and what truth we've found for ourself.

When you realize that all people are actually different, you won't feel so different anymore. We are, after all, all unique beings. Meet the people as unique beings without the idea at the back of your head that they are part of a "borg". Life becomes easier when you talk and regard them in that way.

You follow your path and embrace their path (for them). You will feel more at ease and peace when you embrace them as they are.

It may sound a bit cliché, but that is what really works. You will get what you send out. When you send out that they're crabs they will treat you like that. If you think they're holding you back, they will do just that. If you embrace them, they will more likley embrace you. And I don't mean running around and telling everybody how much you embrace them. It's an inside job.

Cheers :-)
~Chris

 

 

 

Chris thank you so much for your insights. My problem is that I am new to self-developement work (less than a year) and I feel like who I'm becoming is not stable yet.

I have taken so much joy in that work I don't want it to lose it all. It's not that I see my peers as " crabs" but I'm scared that I can't joggle with my new self and who they have been for 20 years. That's probably why I isolate myself or try to engage them in self-work conversations.

The end result is that I'm kind of becoming a social recluse since I'm not fun to be around anymore. It's a vicious cycle where I'm protecting my new self and they are doing the same. Just like you said Chris.

And I don't know how to break that cycle... I hope you understand a bit better. I don't hate them nor what they think is right. But I was expecting some support and understanding. I think it's part of the pyramid of needs.

I can only hope it gets better with time. If not I can find solace in this forum with people like Nomad, Kevin or you Chris being so supportive.

Thank you so much everyone for reading me out

[Isle of View]

34 minutes ago, Edkens said:

But I was expecting some support and understanding.

@Edkens Probably the hardest thing to 'get' for us people who walk this path, particularly at the beginning, is the fact that people look at things from within their box. They can't see what you're up to, that's why it seems so hard to really get support. But it is possible. You only need to decide what it is you would like to be supported by others. When you have the "what", imagine ways how it could work, make visualisations how this would look like. If you can't visualize that, you can't have that.

Some 20 odd years ago when I read my first book about Buddhism, the author said that being among people who are not "on the path" is the best opportunity for us to really see for ourselves how much progress we've made. How do people react and behave towards us? Are we able to calm situations down, just through our mere presence? Can we give solace without saying a word? 

I am not on this journey to look at my belly button. I want to be of some supprot for my "sphere of expression" and that may be the hardest but also the most rewarding activity. That's for the enlightenment side of the coin. The other side of course is my self-actualization in the fields I find worthwhile.

Here is a simple exercise you can do to help you get the support you need:

Ask yourself:

1. How could you support another or others? (ask over and over until you brighten up)
2. How could another or others support you? (ask over and over until you brighten up)
3. How could another or others support others? (ask over and over until you brighten up)
4. How could you support yourself? (ask over and over until you brighten up)

This visualizations will really help you if you do it from time to time. But, when you start, do it as long as needed until you feel good. You may get many realizations from this little process.

 

~Chris

[Philip]

19 hours ago, Edkens said:

Is anyone here going through this feeling of loneliness?

@Edkens I get what you mean... You're not alone.

I'm always trying to elevate the intelligence and the significance of conversations around me. But everyone's too busy talking shit about each other and crowing about those stupid Marvel movies...  you know ?

And even then, I've been passionate about truth, consciousness and personal development for so long that my old social circle became quite intelligent, open-minded and curious about the mysteries of life. Compared to the norm. But I'm still feeling like an alien, even though I built the kind of social circle you probably dream of

And not only do they try to bring you down to their level. They also try to bring you back to your past shitty self. Have you noticed this ? People don't want you to change. They've put you in a box, and they're too lazy to be drawing a different box for you every two months.

One of the solutions : Finding better people to hang out with. People who really want to investigate the important questions about happiness, truth and the future of humanity. People who encourage each other's growth. People like you and me !

[Guest]

@Isle of View @Isle of ViewI am in danger of hijacking this conversation so I apologise to any conventional bods out there who need me to follow their rules. Rules are made to be broken! Anyway. Chris, you talk a lot of sense!! You're posts are very illumiating for me! I appreciate you being here!

[Nathalie]

@Isle of View thank you so much for sharing those statements..

 

[Isle of View]

@Nomad @MartineF

Merci. You're welcome. (-:

 

The above is not to say that you, or anyone on the path, shouldn't work on their "safe heaven". You don't just go around and "hang-up" with people who do not strive for anything higher. Of course it is important to have connections with people who are moving somewhere. And of course you need your alone-time.

But only because it seems that nobody is really supportive, doesn't mean it has nothing to do with your own attitude being projected on the environment.

Do your work and anyway have a little faith in the others. 

From a Buddhist point of view any sencient being is on its way to Buddhahood (even if they drift further away from it).

(Now don't visualize me as a Buddhist monk or something. I am not. It's one of many teachings I appreciate.)

 

54 minutes ago, Philip said:

One of the solutions : Finding better people to hang out with. People who really want to investigate the important questions about happiness, truth and the future of humanity. People who encourage each other's growth. People like you and me !

Sure, that's a way. But ultimately you cut off a large slice of existence out of your sphere of experience and expression. 

I prefere the inclusive path.

People who don't reach for wisdom or who are too tight in their view just don't get the same amount of attention or presence. But I don't write them off entirely. But that's me. I very rarely am in the need to "protect" my position. It's because from their current  position it is just a "position". And to be true, I don't feel at liberty to tell them (or project onto them) that they don't know shit.

 

~Chris 

Edited March 14, 2016 by Isle of View