Fear of the truth of Solipsism

[Vercingetorix]

My motivation for spiritual growth has dwindled in the last 6 months.
I work and see a lot of progress in the outer world - with girls and pick up, with my self-esteem, with emotions mastery, communication - I have high levels of motivation for this stuff. But not so much for anything "beyond". I barely meditate, barely practice yoga, and do not engage so much in spiritual knowledge and practice. Although my highest values are freedom, truth and love, I see that I am in kind of a fear to pursue truth.
the reason is, that I feel as I have glimpsed the truth, and "didn't like" what I've seen ( in my 3 ayahuasca sessions, I will attend another session in a few days)
My fear is similar to what is described in the recent topic about solipsism here (for some time I wanted to ask Leo about this topic but his reply in this thread "confirmed" my suspicions about it, I had a very strong surge of fear and loneliness when I read his reply).

In a way, it's a stupid topic to discuss with "others".
because even just trying to explain to you people the topic forces me to be under the "others exist" illusion. writing here to you guys I have to assume that you exist and I can gain value from discussing with you, that even If "I" alone exist, "you" do seem to experience the same stuff and can help me.

I can't wrap my head around it. If I knew for sure that I alone exist my course of action in my life will be different than if others exist. (will be more focused on me than on others). also If I act as if I alone exist people may think that I am mad and even if it's true it's seems something that I have to hide to an extent.
So I feel like I am kinda stuck. that If I alone exist I can't really trust others reports about spiritual experiences, only my own, and so far for me, it seems to reveal an uncomfortable truth about me being alone, and not stuff like unconditional love, total bliss... Always when I came back from my psychedelic experiences I was very happy, but only because I returned to safety, to a place where others exist and I'm not alone. I'm so happy to return to the "worldly illusion". So why should I pursue this path? why not enjoy this illusion while it lasts? it's not so bad here after all.
On the other hand, I read and hear about all the progress and experiences people are having with spirituality and "envy" them, and for most things, It seems that others experiences can be trusted and mirror mine. but again, when the "truth" of solipsism really hits me, and I surrender to it fully, I really accept that I'm alone, it seems that every piece of knowledge from others collapse, that I can't trust Leo experiences or any others, I feel truly alone. And then I'm afraid because I feel that I am groping in the dark, in the unknown, and what little I have in my life I may lose so I better stick to it.
 

another point, Is that I can't fathom how to talk to others about this topic ( as you can see here...)  how can I address this Issue? it's A fucking paradox. If my experience is that "only I exist" and my experience so far in life is that even if others don't exist it seems as they exist  "like me" so I have to address anyone else as if he alone exist If I want him to understand me. and this forces me to see the world as if "others exist".

I want so deeply to believe that ultimately at the end all there is is unfinite love, that the story of life has a "good ending", but I fear it is not so, That ultimately I'm here alone, responsible to all that is happening, trapped here...

edit: Just watched Leo's solo retreat part 2 from 26:50, And it's almost exactly my experience and conclusions.

 

 

Edited June 9, 2018 by Vercingetorix
removed spaces for easier reading

[Dodo]

Solipsism is not true, it's madness. 

 

[Vercingetorix]

@Dodo why is it so? talking from experience?  Ultimately my intuition agrees with you, but I can't ignore what I experience and what Leo is saying. 

maybe it's just a passing phase that I have to surrender to and accept, and beyond it, I'll find something else.

The beauty of it is that it makes me appreciate what I have here - other people, feeling connected, much more.

[Dodo]

@Vercingetorix

[MarkusSweden]

2 hours ago, Dodo said:

Solipsism is not true, it's madness. 

 

Sounds like a Rupert Spira quotation!  

[Dodo]

10 minutes ago, MarkusSweden said:

Sounds like a Rupert Spira quotation!  

You're on point. Not really quotation,  but from memory.

Edited June 9, 2018 by Dodo

[MarkusSweden]

8 minutes ago, Dodo said:

You're on point. Not really quotation,  but from memory.

I agree on that btw. It's madness! 

[Malelekakis]

@Vercingetorix there is no such thing as being alone because you do not exist. The only thing that's alone is your thought of being alone. If you stop believing this thought(emotion)  their is nothing to fear.  Move towards no-mind. Freedom is when you do not know false things. Truth is when you know nothing. 

The story of life has a good ending but it's always now 

Edited June 9, 2018 by Malelekakis

[Vercingetorix]

@Dodo @MarkusSweden why is it madness? do you think Leo is mad? maybe you are stuck in the materialist paradigm?
I would like to point out that for me, it's a serious issue. of course, it's ok to joke about it sure, but I don't feel that you help me by only calling it madness or posting comics...

@Malelekakis what do you mean that I do not exist? as an ego\body? if so I agree, it is also my experience. but if you mean that I don't exist even as the witness\ consciousness I do not have such experiences. my experience is that I can exist "alone" as consciousness.
how do you know it has a good ending (after death?)  I agree that in this life I can find happiness and bliss by being present in the now, but I don't think it's wise to neglect what happens after.

[Leo Gura]

Nonduality is NOT solipsism.

But the ego-mind may not see it that way at first.

It is true that you are the only thing in existence. You created every human being that exists. Of course the trick is, we're talking about the universal YOU, not the personal you.

It's very simple logic: if nonduality is true, there is no division between anything. There is certainly no division between you/other. You are your own mother. You created Actualized.org to help you awaken. You even wrote this sentence. You are God in every literal sense.

The ego is of course afraid of this. And it may be a shock to the system when you first start to realize how radical nonduality really it. It may feel like madness. Of course it's not madness. It's TRUTH. But TRUTH is a radical thing. It requires a very deep surrender.

In the end, once you fully surrender, it will be fine. Great even.

Nonduality, at the highest degrees of it, is extremely radical. It will shock and terrify the ego-mind. That is the #1 obstacle which keeps people unenlightened. You have to surrender to the radicalness of it. You have to surrender to the madness. It's not really madness. But it will appear to be madness relative to the normie paradigm you are used to.

Enlightened people are basically insane by all conventional standards. They just happen to be insane in a functional way. And they don't frame it that way because it would scare off newbies.

The lite degrees of nonduality can feel pleasant and nice.

The deepest degrees of nonduality can feel downright terrifying and depressing.

And the final stage is peace and wonder.

[blazed]

guys whats the difference between spirituality and solipsism?

Is solipsism like: "i am the only thing that is real and you are all imaginary, an illusion, so I dont need to care about you?"

and spirituality is like: "i am a existence itself, and yet I am also you, looking back at me, because I'm infinitely complex that im infinitely interacting with myself, in a mind fucking bizarre way"

"Everything in the dream was you, you were creating it, so called real life is no different, everyone, everything is you, the one consciousness looking out of every eye, under every rock, within every particle".

Edited June 9, 2018 by blazed

[Leo Gura]

@blazed The biggest difference is that solipsism is a conceptual philosophy. Whereas nonduality is ACTUAL.

Solipsism also don't acknowledge the possibility of awakening

And solipsism doesn't acknowledge other facets of enlightenment like that you are God, Absolute Infinity, infinite intelligence, transcendence of death, etc.

And solipsism doesn't acknowledge no-self. A solipsist is still full of ego.

Solipsism is still stuck at the level of human perception. It just says, "This bubble of human perception is the only truth. Others don't exist."

With nonduality, it's more like: "Others exist as illusions that I created as God. The illusory world is infinite."

Enlightenment is going to feel very different than solipsism from a first-person POV. Although the ego-mind may think they are the same.

[Galyna]

@Leo Gura Leo, I think he is talking about the  focal point of experience. I have the same question to you. You were answering me too. But I wonder if this present moment that I experience right now is the unique and single? 

Please explain,  this is very confusing. You said in your video :" there is only one Conciousness,  and it is YOUR Conciousness "

Reading your posts every night, but feeling that I am running circle.

Thank you.

[Leo Gura]

@Galyna You're not going to understand nonduality by "figuring it out". It needs to be directly experienced.

Meditation, yoga, self-inquiry, psychedelics. That's what you need.

The present moment you are experiencing right now is a tiny fragment of an Absolute Infinite singularity, which includes all things that could ever be, and at the same time, none of it ever happened or even exists.

What you are experiencing right now, is Absolutely Nothing. But it sure doesn't feel that way, does it? Because you have created a duality between something and nothing, when in fact the two are ONE.

You are everything that could ever possibly be, and you are nothing. This is beyond the mind's ability to understand. It requires a radical shift in consciousness.

[blazed]

Where must you go?

What must you gain?

What must you know?

To be complete?

No knowledge, money, person, skill, object, subject, experience can make you complete everything is shallow.

The true self is untouched by all these things, is here right now.

When you glimpse truth you see all this maya talk just pulls you back into maya and brings more confusion.

You can't gain truth from others it's only self realized.

Your own ego is already making you spin circles and a collective ego is even worse.

I agree with Leo you but I'd add all you need is Simplicity, Meditation and to be Intesenly in the now, be so intense to existence that you destroy the illusion of time and see yourself as complete peice of life/existence in the now.

Meditation is great for samadhi experiences, to become aware of the emptiness were maya takes place.

Truth can only be realized through the self.

talking about spiriutality is only good for inspiration or motivation, it does nothing to help you realize it, if you keep talking about it or listen to the ego, all you will get is this:

Edited June 9, 2018 by blazed

[Dodo]

8 hours ago, Vercingetorix said:

@Dodo why is it so? talking from experience?  Ultimately my intuition agrees with you, but I can't ignore what I experience and what Leo is saying. 

maybe it's just a passing phase that I have to surrender to and accept, and beyond it, I'll find something else.

The beauty of it is that it makes me appreciate what I have here - other people, feeling connected, much more.

By my comment I didn't mean to make fun, it was meant to bring you fun, or enjoyment. It made me laugh,  it's a pickup line :-D like Leos "Unzip your pants infront of the girl and say   "Do you want to have my babies?" " joke/pickup line.

 

On a serious note though, the picture also represents what disproves solipsism. Love! ? 

[Vercingetorix]

@Leo Gura thanks leo

@Dodo thanks Dodo and please come back

Thanks guys, love you all ??

[Bulgarianspirit]

Your answer lay here. An animal in the sea is a perfect reflection of god.This animal was like a coral(im really sorry i don't remember the species) Each tendril of the coral was experiencing its own reality but its one organism.I dont like how people beat around the bush saying you are alone etc for ppl who havent gone the full way they might misinterpret what they have seen if they havent embodied god or seen the tendrils of light.. Anyway each point in infinite consciousness is conscious of itself.This is how ego is created and when ppl misinterpret they think only what they see in their head is real etc. No no its not this silly and simple.We are all points of consciousness taking in ourselves through the senses. You are "alone " but as a super consciousness.However all the people around you are just as conscious as you are with a sense of self etc. So dont be lonely you have yourself to keep company(sounds crazy but its what it is ;D)also their experiences are just as relevant as yours so love them as yourself Jesus quotes

Edited March 1, 2020 by Bulgarianspirit