There are no levels of Enlightenment, no levels of consciousness

[Leo Gura]

@Saumaya God is not a confusing word to one who has directly experienced God. There is no mistaking it for something else.

You don't need a PhD to experience God. But you do need an exceptional, almost super-human degree of consciousness.

What is God? is like the question, What am I? It does little good to here the answer. You gotta experience the answer directly for yourself.

The classic definition of God is very precise: an omniscient, omnipresent, all-powerful, all-loving, eternal, formless, infinite intelligence which created itself.

[Saumaya]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

The classic definition of God is very precise: an omniscient, omnipresent, all-powerful, all-loving, eternal, formless, infinite intelligence which created itself.

That could just be the most accurate definition of one's true nature. You are calling it God though. I dont know what you mean by these deeper states. Maybe even for me it was in gradual stages, I dont remember. One thing I can confirm though, when I was done, I was done. There is no question about it, there cant be any higher or deeper realisation. It is like you know everything there is to know about the world. There is no more seeking, just abiding in Non Dual awareness.

[p1xelmonk]

5 minutes ago, Saumaya said:

there cant be any higher or deeper realisation

Reality is infinite. There are an infinite number of deeper realisations to be had.

[Saumaya]

2 minutes ago, p1xelmonk said:

Reality is infinite. There are an infinite number of deeper realisations to be had.

A pure misinterpretation of the statement of what 'Reality is infinite' means but ok, good luck on your infinite realisations.

[Dogsbestfriend]

Don't know why people get so caught up in what people choose to believe, especially when there is so little concrete proof for any of it. Someone has a deep connection to a particular realization, they come here and feel like they need to convince people of it or show others how 'much deeper' they have yet to go.

What if within 'Absolute truth' there are various simultaneous  truths? Like qubits within a quantum computer system, existing in superposition in multiple states at the same time?

[Azrael]

This debate is so useless because it's a conflict between two paradigms of reality. The "there are no levels of consciousness" paradigm argues everything with "there is only one thing" and the "there  are levels of consciousness" paradigm argues with "distinctive perceivable states". Funnily, both are wrong but very good guides in certain situations. So stop misusing words to claim absolute descriptions and start using concepts for what they were developed for: practice.

[egoless]

This conversation is yet another proof to me that Enlightenment is just another form of belief  See how different and conflicting your worldviews are even though majority of you have had these so called “Enlightenment” experience. 

Now stay open minded and don’t start attacking me as a form of self defense or the defense of your worldview. As you are saying: “there is no separate self” right?  

Edited June 8, 2018 by egoless

[Faceless]

7 minutes ago, egoless said:

This conversation is yet another proof to me that Enlightenment is just another form of belief  See how different and conflicting your worldviews are even though majority of you have had these so called “Enlightenment” experience. 

Now stay open minded and don’t start attacking me as a form of self defense or the defense of your worldview. As you are saying: “there is no separate self” right?  

You are right my friend. Most of us are still caught in subtle belief. That it because we do not understand how the self/thought operates. We can not detect when thought has attributed to itself as being independent of thought/self. 

This is what I talk about a lot on here. 

 

I see what you are saying. But have we considered that we may also be doing this same thing? That is a question we must ask ourselves, or we will remain in self deception. This will inevitably lead to a contradiction/conflict. 

 

Can you/ i becomes free of personal and collective authority??

 

Thats the only way to truth. Do you see that?

Which is not a way at all lol 

Edited June 8, 2018 by Faceless

[egoless]

@Faceless I respect you amigo. I like your approach and you are sincere in your search. Remember, no matter how hard you try you will still operate from your worldview. However, I have already found the Truth for me. All the desire for the search is over and I feel peace. I wish you the same! May the God bless you! 

[Faceless]

1 minute ago, egoless said:

I respect you amigo

Me to friend. 

1 minute ago, egoless said:

I like your approach and you are sincere in your search.

This is just the point though. 

Did you seek truth? 

Or did you seek to understand yourself without the accumulation of personal and collective authority as a barrier? 

 

[Faceless]

4 minutes ago, egoless said:

no matter how hard you try you will still operate from your worldview.

This is what I am referring to. 

There must be freedom from a view. The me/the known. Otherwise you cannot investingate without the past influencing the investigation. 

[egoless]

10 minutes ago, Faceless said:

This is just the point though. 

Did you seek truth? 

Or did you seek to understand yourself without the accumulation of personal and collective authority as a barrier? 

I always did seek the Truth with my whole heart and I found it. I know from your paradigm it seems like I have made the step back on the lower level but trust me that’s not the case. You know me and you know that once I was like you. Faceless. This is delusion. You have a face and it is the greatest gift from the God. Don’t try to lose your face on the contrary embrace it and praise the God! You will see what happens then!  

Edited June 8, 2018 by egoless

[Faceless]

4 minutes ago, egoless said:

I always did seek the Truth with my whole heart and I found it. I know from your paradigm it seems like I have made the step back on the lower level but trust me that’s not the case. You know me and you know that once I was like you. Faceless. This is delusion. You have a face and it is the greatest gift from the God. Don’t try to loose your face on the contrary embrace it and praise the God! You will see what happens then!  

What do you mean, you were like me?

The way you have gone about this is totally different than the way I approached it. I never seeked truth. That has no meaning. 

You seeked a path. I never have. 

To seek truth implies time. This is why you have been caught again and again. 

Edited June 8, 2018 by Faceless

[egoless]

@Faceless Don’t get caught up in words. See what I mean behind them. 

Remember people use words differently 

Edited June 8, 2018 by egoless

[Faceless]

You have seeked security through authority. 

I went this all alone. No authority, even my own. 

[Faceless]

Evasion, a sign of fear(time) 

This is what I am referring to buddy. 

Caught in psychological becoming. 

[Jordan]

I don't understand what you mean that their are not different levels of consciousness. Maybe someone can help me understand. Aren't you generally more conscious when being mindful enjoying a walk in the park than watching tv and forgetting everything around you. Do you define consciousness differently or something? Maybe you have a much different paradigm of how reality works than me?

I would consider the level of consciousness as the level of awareness of your surrounding reality which does seem to have different levels. 

[Leo Gura]

@Saumaya There is an important practical difference though:

People can realize one part of enlightenment without realizing another part. This not a hypothetical point. It happens very commonly.

For example, one can realize no-self but not realize Absolute Infinity. Or one can realize no-self but fail to have an insight about the nature of love or the nature of other beings.

So, even if in your particular case you managed to somehow realize all the facets of enlightenment in one fell swoop. Which I highly, highly doubt. That would be a special case. The more general case for people pursuing enlightenment is that they will have to access each facet individually, and then all of them collectively, at various times. Otherwise, people will have one profound insight and think: "That's it! That's all there is. I'm done." When in fact they have only scratched the surface, nowhere even close to done.

Take some strong psychedelics and see how many different levels and facets of consciousness there are.

Of course in the end it's all ONE consciousness. But consciousness manifests itself in various ways, for example: dreaming vs waking consciousness. You can say that dreaming and awaking are ultimately the same, because everything is ultimately nondual, but this is not true from the unawakened person's POV -- and that's who your teachings should be aimed at.

[Saumaya]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Which I highly, highly doubt. That would be a special case. The more general case for people pursuing enlightenment is that they will have to access each facet individually, and then all of them collectively, at various times.

I didnt say that, I had a lot of enlightenment experiences, but I knew there was further to go. I knew when it was the last one in my 2 year arduous journey. There was no further, only done. Just nothing.

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Take some strong psychedelics and see how many different levels and facets of consciousness there are.

Not legal in my country, feels bad.

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You can say that dreaming and awaking are ultimately the same, because everything is ultimately nondual, but this is not true from the unawakened person's POV -- and that's who your teachings should be aimed at.

What my aim is to get this fact out of their head that enlightenment is a never ending journey, because it isnt. I didnt say there cant be enightenment experiences, I said enlightenment happens once, and when its done its done. No going back. I should have specified that I guess.

[Saumaya]

8 hours ago, Jordan said:

Aren't you generally more conscious when being mindful enjoying a walk in the park than watching tv and forgetting everything around you

It has nothing to do with consciousness. Ego reduces its activity. Ego is the agent not consciousness. Consciousness remains the same.