Consciousness has nothing to do with spirituality

[Azza]

1 minute ago, Faceless said:

Actually there is not a difference at all. 

This is why we need to understand ourselves. 

Was just about to say that ?

 

[egoless]

At least this is how I perceive it and how I use these words. You are free to disagree according to what meaning do you assign to words. Anyways. I have said and shared enough with you guys. I tried to share the new perspective and challenge your belief system (even though you don’t perceive it so). I don’t see any more point to argue here anymore. I will be leaving the forum activity soon. If any of you have questions or are interested in what I have said feel free to pm me. Remember my only goal here was to share my knowledge and understanding and not to argue or convince someone. That’s beyond my power and desire. May the God bless you all! Bye! 

[zoey101]

Oh boy, so much to catch up on lol 

@egoless I love your passion for Him  it is definitely strong, but you have to stay open to changing your views, otherwise you will never learn the Truth.

When I was little (ages 5-8 or so) God was a scary old man in the clouds that would watch my every move and punish me for my sins, no matter how little. As I got older (9-18) I started thinking more about the "free will" vs. His "Divine Plan" and found myself getting so confused and thinking "well if it's all part of His "Plan", then it really doesn't matter what I do, because it was what He planned already, right?" a very conflicting mindset to be in.

Now that I am a little older, and have learned some more, I see Hem as something so beautiful and fascinating. He created everything in this universe down to the littlest function of the littlest cell. He then gave everything basic rules of function and survival and then just let it all go, hence the free will. Everything, the good and the bad, is fascinating because none of it would be able to happen if He didn't make everything, and then loved us enough to let it all go and let us just be.

I accept that my views of God now may not be my views in the future. I still have a lot to learn and discover about Him and myself. 

God made everything with the ability to evolve so we can continue to survive. We have to do the same with our beliefs, the more we learn. 

[Joseph Maynor]

4 minutes ago, egoless said:

At least this is how I perceive it and how I use these words. You are free to disagree according to what meaning do you assign to words. Anyways. I have said and shared enough with you guys. I tried to share the new perspective and challenge your belief system (even though you don’t perceive it so). I don’t see any more point to argue here anymore. I will be leaving the forum activity soon. If any of you have questions or are interested in what I have said feel free to pm me. Remember my only goal here was to share my knowledge and understanding and not to argue or convince someone. That’s beyond my power and desire. May the God bless you all! Bye! 

I see religion as a possible phase in the growth process.  I went through that.  The Forum should be tolerant of those with religious beliefs.  This is a necessary part of growth for many people.  

Edited June 8, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Faceless]

@Azza ?

belief can be very subtle. I try and share that. But belief is driven by fear so ones defense prevents any communion. 

 

Edited June 8, 2018 by Faceless

[cetus]

10 minutes ago, egoless said:

You are missled by the false image of Jesus

@egoless Really? I have contemplated Jesus's last words on the cross many times. "Forgive them father for they know not what they do".

Have you had a direct experiance of the true depth of those words? How deeply man and mind has been deceived by the manifest world and it's Earthly goods of power, control and greed? They crucified a body. They crucified an illusion. And yet the truth always remains and can never be hidden.

[zoey101]

@Faceless I agree. We have to be open to evolving with our beliefs. 

1 minute ago, cetus56 said:

@egoless Really? I have contemplated Jesus's last words on the cross many times. "Forgive them father for they know not what they do".

Have you had a direct experiance of the true depth of those words? How deeply man and mind has been deceived by the manifest world and it's Earthly goods of power, control and greed? They crucified a body. They crucified an illusion. And yet the truth always remains and can never be hidden.

AMEN! He is in the cave no longer for He is Risen from the Earthly body to fulfill His purpose, LIFE!

[egoless]

11 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I see religion as a possible phase in the growth process.  I went through that.  The Forum should be tolerant of those with religious beliefs.  This is a necessary part of growth for many people.  

Joseph you are missing the fact that christianity is not new to me. I was part of this religion my whole life until I started questioning some stuff which I did not understand. This is how I ended up on nondual path. initially It seemed more “logical” and “open minded” to me. As you know I have had several “powerful nondual” experiences. But when I started to look for the God with my whole heart Jesus revealed himself to me. He was always there! I was searching for him elsewhere! I repented and was forgiven instantly! I felt all of his love and compassion. I am born again christian! God bless you all! I found the Truth. Every desire to look elsewhere is gone. I wish you all the same! 

Edited June 8, 2018 by egoless

[Faceless]

3 minutes ago, zoey101 said:

agree. We have to be open to evolving with our beliefs. 

Not evolve belief. End the movement of belief all together. This is what I refer to as a movement of time. 

All movement/action of self that is influenced by fear, pleasure, desire, will, psychological time (psychological becoming and not becoming) 

 

[Joseph Maynor]

8 minutes ago, egoless said:

Joseph you are missing the fact that christianity is not new to me. I was part of this religion my whole life until I started questioning some stuff which I did not understand. This is how I ended up on nondual path. initially It seemed more “logical” and “open minded” to me. As you know I have had several “powerful nondual” experiences. But when I started to look for the God with my whole heart Jesus revealed himself to me. He was always there! I was searching for him elsewhere! I was forgiven instantly! I am born again christian! God bless you all! I found the Truth. Every desire to look elsewhere is gone. I wish you all the same! 

I get it.  I felt that way a couple of years ago myself.  And a lot of that stuff is still with me.  It’s not like spirituality makes a clean shift, it’s just that how you conceive of it can change.  It’s like your paradigms shift, but that doesn’t mean I feel any less spiritual than I did when I was religious.  I still feel guided and blessed. It’s just that the beliefs of religion have been transcended.  But the reality of spirituality is the same as it ever was for me.  

Edited June 8, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Faceless]

1 minute ago, egoless said:

As you know I have had several “powerful nondual” experiences.

This seems to be a big misconception. 

It is the cessation of experience altogether. 

If one experiences then they have projected that experience from the accumulation of there past/the known. 

[Joseph Maynor]

1 minute ago, Faceless said:

This seems to be a big misconception. 

It is the cessation of experience altogether. 

If one experiences then they have projected that experience from the accumulation of there past/the known. 

I agree.  Existential Truth is not a state.  People have so much trouble groking that.

[egoless]

4 minutes ago, Faceless said:

This seems to be a big misconception. 

It is the cessation of experience altogether. 

If one experiences then they have projected that experience from the accumulation of there past/the known. 

I know what nonduality means trust me. I am just using the word “experience” to indicate that in reality it is still an experience even though it seems transcendental to you  

But you only realize that after you are saved from that paradigm

Edited June 8, 2018 by egoless

[Joseph Maynor]

10 minutes ago, egoless said:

I know what nonduality means trust me. I am just using the word “experience” to indicate that in reality it is still an experience even though it seems transcendental to you  

But you only realize that after you are saved from that paradigm

Stick around man.  I like the fact you are honest about your beliefs.  Each Perspective has a different lens of reality.  This idea that everyone should have my lens is just untenable.  Even Enlightened people differ widely on their views of reality.  That’s to be appreciated, not ignored.  No two Persectives have the same stories about reality.  Once you have Existential Truth, the stories become much less important.  If you find your conceptual systems about reality useful and they work for you — I’m not gonna try to impose my views on you.  I might try to provoke you, but that’s because I wanna see if you might grow past your current frameworks.  But see, I do that to everybody because I do that to myself.  I’m always trying to grow.  And I have grown, a lot.

Edited June 8, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[MiracleMan]

2 minutes ago, Faceless said:

This seems to be a big misconception. 

It is the cessation of experience altogether. 

If one experiences then they have projected that experience from the accumulation of there past/the known. 

I've heard it refered to as a non experience.  It's scary because selfing claims everything, every spiritual experience or state is claimed as "I had this experience" but the problem is that there wasn't a self there during that experience, or non experience, it's only after, in hindsight, that I look back and say, yeah, I had that experience.  

[Azza]

24 minutes ago, Faceless said:

@Azza ?

belief can be very subtle. I try and share that. But belief is driven by fear so ones defense prevents any communion. 

I don't think all belief is driven by fear. For example, I can't say i am enlightened because i am not. But i believe in source field and consciousness. Its the only thing that makes sense to me after i seeked answers though islam and I couldn't find any. The current interpretation of islam doesn't make sense. I can say that THIS belief is driven by curiousity? Or the search for happiness. A final peace of mind. It is still a belief but doesn't have boundaries. I think it's a belief that is very flexible because in it, you believe that the truth is everywhere. You're open to anything and you add it to a brain map. Actually only through this i looked at islam, my original belief, differently. Not saying i am a muslim again. But saying islam is a part of the big picture. Piece of the puzzle. 

Edited June 8, 2018 by Azza

[cetus]

@egoless IMO all this really boils down to surrender. Whatever works for you. If Jesus gets you there, good for you. 

10 minutes ago, egoless said:

But when I started to look for the God with my whole heart Jesus revealed himself to me. He was always there! I was searching for him elsewhere! I repented and was forgiven instantly!

What you describe is surrendering. The release of accumulated stress in the nervous system. Once that clearing happens than your wide open to experiance pure being or as the Christians may call it soul of spirit. At the end of the day we are all talking about the same thing really. Some of it just has more packaging.

[zoey101]

15 minutes ago, Faceless said:

Not evolve belief. End the movement of belief all together. This is what I refer to as a movement of time. 

All movement/action of self that is influenced by fear, pleasure, desire, will, psychological time (psychological becoming and not becoming) 

 

I wonder how I could possibly incorporate that  I am Christian, I have strong belief in my faith, are we supposed to not believe? or is it just something else?

[egoless]

9 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Stick around man.  I like the fact you are honest about your beliefs.  Each Perspective has a different lens of reality.  This idea that everyone should have my lens is just untenable.  

I can’t Joseph. This place won’t aid me in strengthening my relationship with Jesus. I just shared with you all my new understanding and Truth. I felt responsible to return here after I was gone for month to share all this with you because I consider many of you as my online friends! I understood that I was deceived and inviting you all to challange your worldview as I did for one month non-stop and see where it goes. Lastly, I will add that I was always feeling the existence of personal God. God to me was always alive and ifinitely intelligence. I always had the feeling that he is everywhere but at the same time I am separate self with my own free will. My search for the Truth of the source of reality was always sincere. I believe this is why I was answered by Jesus. I wish you all to find the One True God for yourselves. 

Edited June 8, 2018 by egoless

[MiracleMan]

3 minutes ago, egoless said:

I can’t Joseph. This place won’t aid me in strengthening my relationship with Jesus. I just shared with you all my new understanding and Truth. I felt responsible to return here after I was gone for month to share all this with you because I consider many of you as my online friends! I understood that I was deceived and inviting you all to challange your worldview as I did for one month non-stop and see where it goes. Lastly, I will add that I was always feeling the existence of personal God. God to me was always alive and ifinitely intelligence. I always had the feeling that he is everywhere but at the same time I am separate self with my own free will. My search for the Truth of the source of reality was always sincere. I believe this is why I was answered by Jesus. I wish you all to find the True God for yourselves. 

Do you believe Jesus is the only way to realize Truth?