Pursuing Enlightenment does not make one special

[Faceless]

8 minutes ago, Viking said:

but my desires dont depend on me

Are you sure? 

[Viking]

8 minutes ago, Faceless said:

Different way to explore...

Why does one search for meaning? 

because it feels good i guess.

or because it's for the sake of itself, like play.

Just now, Faceless said:

Are you sure? 

I dont know, maybe i can, but i dont know how, i cant force myself to like something

[Faceless]

14 minutes ago, Viking said:

but how do i search for meaning and know that meaning is made by me?

What is the mechanism in movement when one seeks meaning?

 

And if we start with understanding that meachanisn maybe we will get further in such an inquiry. 

 

 

[Faceless]

7 minutes ago, now is forever said:

it's the essence of life, the holy grail whatever it's infinity.

Ah I understand what you are implying, but does pure bliss (that which is timeless) seek any-thing, ‘time’ ??

Is not seeking a movement of time? 

This question is not meant to be responded to. It’s just something I had inquired into before that brought about clarity. 

Edited June 4, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

9 minutes ago, Viking said:

because it feels good i guess.

Sure I see that, Pleasure. 

 

9 minutes ago, Viking said:

or because it's for the sake of itself, like play.

Also yes that seems reasonable. The persona is a constant movement of tugawar so to speak. 

 

9 minutes ago, Viking said:

10 minutes ago, Faceless said:

Are you sure? 

I dont know, maybe i can, but i dont know how, i cant force myself to like something

Can you force yourself to not like something? 

Edited June 4, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

10 hours ago, Faceless said:

11 hours ago, Viking said:

because it feels good i guess.

Sure I see that, Pleasure. 

If there is a movement of pleasure, what is accompanied with that pleasure?

Edited June 5, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

1 minute ago, now is forever said:

?

Also it’s not directed toward you in particular, but to us. ?

[Patang]

there is a slight difference between the one that is awaken and the one that dreams, not for the better, not for the worse (of course!). the awakened one is aware to the fact,  that what he is calling "i", and what he is calling "reality", are only a simulation (a model, if you will), where awareness(or consciousness, if you prefer) is simulating itself.

Edited June 4, 2018 by Patang

[Saumaya]

5 hours ago, Key Elements said:

If you want to show others something, it can't be done by telling them what they can and cannot do.

I am not doing that, I am just suggesting to consider why one is pursuing enlightenment in the first place. Is it genuine desire or a neurotic escape.

[Key Elements]

36 minutes ago, Saumaya said:

I am not doing that, I am just suggesting to consider why one is pursuing enlightenment in the first place. Is it genuine desire or a neurotic escape.

I wasn't talking about you. I was referring to the quotation. 

[Saumaya]

1 minute ago, Key Elements said:

I wasn't talking about you. I was referring to the quotation. 

Is the quotation related to the topic? If so how?

[Key Elements]

52 minutes ago, Saumaya said:

Is the quotation related to the topic? If so how?

Because if 'you' think that you're superior to another just because they have bad habits or didn't realize the path yet, and then 'you' start to lecture them and try to put them on the path, they will probably not listen, and 'you' may be misguiding them even more. They may not understand or are not interested. They are not ready to hear it. So a debate may start and gets nowhere.

Lecturing and trying to convince another person could be a form of fingerpointing. 

[Saumaya]

11 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

Because if 'you' think that you're superior to another just because they have bad habits or didn't realize the path yet, and then 'you' start to lecture them and try to put them on the path, they will probably not listen, and 'you' may be misguiding them even more. They may not understand or are not interested. They are not ready to hear it. So a debate may start and gets nowhere.

Lecturing and trying to convince another person could be a form of fingerpointing. 

I see. Great point.

[Key Elements]

39 minutes ago, Saumaya said:

I see. Great point.

Thanks.

[Saumaya]

33 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

Because if 'you' think that you're superior to another just because they have bad habits or didn't realize the path yet, and then 'you' start to lecture them and try to put them on the path, they will probably not listen, and 'you' may be misguiding them even more. They may not understand or are not interested. They are not ready to hear it. So a debate may start and gets nowhere.

Lecturing and trying to convince another person could be a form of fingerpointing. 

@Key Elements Whats the alternative to that? In your opinion how do we help other people without lecturing them?

[Key Elements]

1 hour ago, Saumaya said:

@Key Elements Whats the alternative to that? In your opinion how do we help other people without lecturing them?

Do a LP with your mastery (profession) and your path. You could express your path in a product, such as a book, an app, a download, or whatever. Do it in a creative way so it doesn't sound like it's lecturing. You could tell it in 3rd person or story form.

We are very lucky we could do a LP. Before, it was only by word of mouth. Now, we have Internet. 

[Saumaya]

2 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

Do a LP with your mastery (profession) and your path. You could express your path in a product, such as a book, an app, a download, or whatever. Do it in a creative way so it doesn't sound like it's lecturing. You could tell it in 3rd person or story form.

I see. Do you agree that we should help other people to see their better selves while giving advice rather than lecturing them? If so how can we do that with people who are close to us?

[Key Elements]

7 hours ago, Saumaya said:

I see. Do you agree that we should help other people to see their better selves while giving advice rather than lecturing them? 

Sure, if they're willing to listen to what you have to say. Only then can you share what you have to say. Otherwise, it will sound like a lecture or something "weird" to them.

7 hours ago, Saumaya said:

If so how can we do that with people who are close to us?

For most ppl who are close, you can't explain because they didn't discover their path yet. So they can't relate to you. All they do is go to the pooja room and pray. They don't go beyond that. They're stuck.

However, if you make a product, like write a book and it becomes famous, they may notice. But, even then, they may not relate and they're not interested. By that time, they will notice that your life has changed and who you hang out with and what you do has completely changed. So, they'll probably come to know without you explaining. You're showing not telling. Think of Sai Baba. Look at what he has done. For most, he didn't have to speak about it. We come to know.

[Saumaya]

2 hours ago, now is forever said:

@Saumaya said:

"i see. Do you agree that we should help other people to see their better selves while giving advice rather than lecturing them? If so how can we do that with people who are close to us?"

@now is forever says:

children learn best by examples, as everyone else does. so by being a good example (and with good i mean an experiencable one) people start to wonder and start to realize and that's the first step - but you need to be approachable for their questions. and if you don't have an answer you can always find the answer with them. 

my mother had this quote: "children are guests who ask for the way" 

might be the path in english.

 

 

true

 @Key Elements Right

[who chit]

Just getting someone who is oblivious of spirituality, to look inward, is difficult. Spirituality is usually the last frontier after all other sources for fulfillment, happiness, healing have been exhausted. Primarily because it is usually associated with religion. And also the new age woo woo  bs associated with it. Societies' heavily dogmatic adherence to all things matter/materialistic and the scientific paradigm also contribute. The burden of proof,that there is an inner dimension beyond suffering,lies on the spiritualist. If the sufferer is to the point of giving anything a try,it would be easy. Others won't be so easy to convince. The word enlightenment needs to be trashed from the get go. Most just want abiding peace, contentment. Not to annihilate their identity.

Psychiatry isn't much more a reliable source than spirituality. Usually it's meds and talk therapy. CBT has proven to be a decent modality. But then again, it's based on "being aware of unrealistic thoughts", (what thought isn't,), and challenging them with more realistic thoughts to affect behavior change. Watching thoughts has been in spirituality for thousands of years.

There's also the very real fact, even though they will deny it, that most actually have a certain "friendship" with their suffering. Their sense of identity is so wrapped up in the story of "my suffering" they would rather cling to that, than to affect any change. Only when it gets to the point of being absolutely intolerable, will there be a willingness to do something about it.