Leo latest post "The God Debate"

[Spinoza]

I was reading Leo latest post on "The God Debate" Blog Post

I found a contradiction, i wanted to leave a commente but there is no commente area

Leo mentionned in the blog post that Peterson is wrong claiming that morals, meaning, values doesn't exist, in the forum Leo himself claim the same idea

 

So this is what leo said in the blog post about Peterson view:

Where Jordan Peterson is wrong: Morality is a human invention. Evil does not exist. Bad does not exist. Meaning does not exist. Value does not exist. (This is Peterson's biggest mistake. These assumptions corrupt his entire understanding).

In an other post in the forum Leo wrote his view:

1 - At deep levels of consciousness you realize that everything is pointless, valueless, and meaningless. Post

2- Notice, that this just your self-survival talking. "Immoral" is a judgment your ego-mind makes because these people threat your ability to survive.

"Immoral" and "evil" and "bad" are all the same basic judgment. Doesn't matter what label you use. Post

 

It seems contradictory

Personnaly i believe that morals, meaning, values doesn't exist, but are important for survival, i'm confused on Leo opinion, i hope he can himself clarify

PS: i did not saw the debate between Jordan Peterson and Matt Dillahunty

 

 

[Ether]

There is always a point even in the most "pointless" things. I will show you.

Playing videogames - Fun

Getting drunk with friends - Connection and love

Watching football - Companionship

See? Everything has a point. We do EVERYTHING because there is a point to it. We go to school because there is a point, which is, getting an education where then, we can get a job and earn money. See? There is a point.

 

Ask me if you want me to do meaning as well.

[Spinoza]

This is not the point of the post  

All what you mentioned are self deceptions from a radically honest point of view,

[Ether]

@Spinoza No, its the truth from extremist contemplative point of view. Dont hang on anybody's words, even if they are the "smartest" man alive. Focus on yourself. Do you really think you will attain nirvana with a belief system? Dont fool yourself, homie, this is not how it works. It takes work. Are you really prepared for that? I am, I am going all in.

[Torkys]

@Ether Then give up rapping, video games, and the forum and meditate for 30 days straight

[Ether]

1 minute ago, Torkys said:

@Ether Then give up rapping, video games, and the forum and meditate for 30 days straight

You dont need to do the same as spiritual teacher to attain liberation. Who knows, maybe all I need is 30 minutes of pure straight focus each day.

[Torkys]

@Ether But maximizing the amount of practice you get in makes liberation come quicker. I meant to express the dedication Leo has, not the action itself. 

 

[Ether]

Just now, Torkys said:

@Ether But maximizing the amount of practice you get in makes liberation come quicker. I meant to express the dedication Leo has, not the action itself. 

 

I understand but who knows, It might come in the next second...without even trying. 

 

 

[Truth Addict]

@Spinoza 

What Leo is trying to do, is completing the agenda of religion, it's an ego, it has a purpose, which is the end of suffering.

Because to a non-egoic being there's no point of talking, no point of ending suffering, no point of anything.

Who knows? Maybe God is an ego, maybe He has His own agenda. ? I just can't blindly believe that God (Who is infinitely intelligent) is playing around. There has to be something we still don't understand.

See, all that Leo is really about is non-materialism, the opposite pole of atheism and current society. Religion did the same thing only in a different way, Leo is mainly targeting an atheist audience that is so stuck in the materialist paradigm. Whereas religion's audience were theists but mostly polytheistic or a corrupt monotheistic or something like that.

I think this is the big picture for Actualized.org, Leo indirectly hints to that all the time.

[Widdle Puppy]

Seeing these contradictions and accepting paradox is part of this whole magnificent journey. Deriving a reconciliation between them is then another part of it all. One thing that I've become aware of lately is the quality of something. It's like coming full circle and reaching a new understanding. Leo talked about this in his victim mindset video but what stood out to me was the similarities between being a victim and in a state of blindness and suffering vs being in a state of balance, awareness and acceptance. I think this relates to meaning and morality. It's existence is a paradox and there is a greater understanding and embodiment you can have of these concepts where they don't actually exist, but they exist. Simply believing in rules, meaning and morality isn't what makes it exist. It perhaps exists in a different way than how we think it exists. 

 

[Monkey-man]

hokku

 

oh Leo oh Leo

you are truly great

but Leo but Leo

you missing the key

oh Leo oh Leo

how did you miss

what nature of belief really is

oh Leo oh Leo

why can't you see

meaning and value and purpose and belief and stories

all came before formed reality and before substance of reality

all came before our reality

and Leo and Leo

just like a script is coming before shooting a movie

oh Leo oh Leo

In the beginning there was word and word was with God

Edited June 3, 2018 by Monkey-man

[Ether]

@Monkey-man Dude, is this Kanye's Robocop interpolated? 

[Monkey-man]

@Ether not at all, i just cant find better ways to communicate

[Spinoza]

9 hours ago, Ether said:

@Spinoza No, its the truth from extremist contemplative point of view. Dont hang on anybody's words, even if they are the "smartest" man alive. Focus on yourself. Do you really think you will attain nirvana with a belief system? Dont fool yourself, homie, this is not how it works. It takes work. Are you really prepared for that? I am, I am going all in.

 

[Ether]

@Spinoza Ok, you can paraphrase all you want, you are not going to understand what im saying unless you go through it.

[Spinoza]

Be careful of the "Know it all" trap

[Leo Gura]

@Spinoza You simply misread my blog post.

Jordan Peterson is a moralist. He believes in morality, value, and meaning.

And what I was saying in the blog post was those things are inventions. Absolute Being does not have meaning or value.

There's no contradiction. My wording in the blog post was just ambiguous to you, especially since you didn't watch the actual debate.

Peterson is wrong because he believes evil exists. Or at least that's what it sounds like he believes, to me.

[Spinoza]

@Leo Gura I see, I thought that the ordered list "Where Jordan Peterson is wrong :"  was his own quotes.

I agree that "Absolute Being does not have meaning or value"

Value and meaning are different for every society, i think it require a lot of "courage" to claim that. All the legal system, relationship, organisations, society in general is based on that.

Maybe the reason why some philosopher can't say that, it can be a justification for some people to do what is considered as "Evil", so this point of view can be a danger for society even if it's true, cause not everybody look for a deep understanding of why Evil is an invention 

I think philosophers, researchers and professors are not always genuine with theirs opinion, they may be seen as "psychopath" with not judgment of what is good or evil or they can loose theirs power, so they can't claim such thing publicly. 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Spinoza said:

I think philosophers, researchers and professors are not always genuine with theirs opinion, they may be seen as "psychopath" with not judgment of what is good or evil or they can loose theirs power, so they can't claim such thing publicly.

But in Peterson's case, he seems to genuinely believe his own moralizing. Which is why he gets a bit preachy about it. It's a classic religious trap and it's holding him back from a deeper understanding of God and consciousness.

To become truly spiritual, you have to surrender moralizing and intellectual position-taking.

[MisterMan]

"Morality is a human invention. Evil does not exist. Bad does not exist. Meaning does not exist. Value does not exist. (This is Peterson’s biggest mistake. These assumptions corrupt his entire understanding)."

 

By Leo's standard of criticising Peterson here he does this by using language and thought which are also human inventions, or relationships between each other that have been arbitrarily chosen to then try and discredit an argument based on these nonsensical distinctions that create the argument itself.

 

 

That being said, I would legit kill another man to see an actual debate between Leo and Peterson.

Edited June 4, 2018 by MisterMan