Leos latest episode on consciousness - A question

[MarkusSweden]

In Leos latest video on consciousness he says that consciousness has to be completely empty without any qualities/attributes. 

Because if consciousness was big lets say, if 'big' was a fundamental quality or attribute, then it couldn't take the form of the opposite attribute, 'small' that is. 

So consciousness is completely empty, without any qualities or attributes, therefore it is NOTHING. 

But it is not nothing in a conventional mening in a way that it doesn't exist, because it does exist! 

And here comes my question, isn't 'existence' a quality in itself?

If so, then consciousness is nothingness with ONE quality/attribute, namely the attribute that it exist 

So, consciousness can't take the opposite form to that attribute, it can't be non existing. 

And if consciousness can't cease to exist, is it really totally free and infinite then??

We as humans are free to cease to exist(suicide), the same can't be said for consciousness, it lacks that freedom, since consciousness with its only attribute is what is prior to everything and something fundamental that never change, IT IS, and can never turn itself into non existence? 

Hence no ultimate freedom? 

Edited June 3, 2018 by MarkusSweden

[Leo Gura]

43 minutes ago, MarkusSweden said:

And here comes my question, isn't 'existence' a quality in itself?

That's the whole trick, existence is nothing! So it's not a quality. But it exists, as nothing.

There is no alternative to existence.

[Preetom]

Just now, MarkusSweden said:

And if consciousness can't cease to exist, is it really totally free and infinite then??

I think that's the final intellectual dead end.

God can never be Non-God. That seems like the only thing God can't do. But God can sure 'dream' He is Non-God 

[MarkusSweden]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's the whole trick, existence is nothing! So it's not a quality. But it exists, as nothing.

There is no alternative to existence.

Just hard for me to wrap my mind around!  

Great episode btw.

[Leo Gura]

@MarkusSweden It's not really possible to get without some altered state of consciousness. The ego-mind is too powerful to let you see it. It's got a lock on your notion of reality.

Requires either a very still mind, like a perfectly calm pond, or psychedelics.

[Faceless]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Requires either a very still mind, like a perfectly calm pond

Indeed. Mind empty of conditioned movement/time. 

[Maycol]

@Leo Gura Love your new look! 

[Ananta]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Requires either a very still mind, like a perfectly calm pond

Yes, It's called a sattvic (still/calm) mind. Awareness can "reflect" within a sattvic mind and the intellect will register a thought of limitlessness and recognize that pure awareness, itself, is the formless fundamental reality of all forms, including the mind itself.

This is what they call Self-realization. Which is different from assimilation of the Self (capital S), that's another topic.

[Ether]

51 minutes ago, Maycol said:

@Leo Gura Love your new look! 

RIP Leo with no beard

[Faceless]

Only an ego wants to kill and ego.

 

Ego clings to belief.

Where there is the movement of belief there is fear.

And if there is fear, awareness is not. 

To believe in awareness and to embody awareness is quite different.

This is where maintaining a religious awareness of the conditioned “i” comes in and brings about communion with the dynamic now.

Conciousness empty of the stream of time. 

 

Edited June 3, 2018 by Faceless

[Joseph Maynor]

You’re good at spotting issues.  Very good for discussion.  Sometimes you gotta use a system to change a system, almost always in fact.  If you’re trying to teach, you gotta give people something that they can relate to — you gotta kinda meet them where they are.  I can’t speak for Leo, but I understand the situation he’s in.  He can’t just assume his audience is Enlightened and speak to them that way.  He’s gotta communicate with people in a way that they can relate to.

Edited June 3, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Faceless]

14 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

You’re good at spotting issues.  Very good for discussion.  Sometimes you gotta use a system to change a system, almost always in fact.  If you’re trying to teach, you gotta give people something that they can relate to — you gotta kinda meet them where they are.  I can’t speak for Leo, but I understand the situation he’s in.  He can’t just assume his audience is Enlightened and speak to them that way.  He’s gotta communicate with people in a way that they can relate to.

The question is can anyone teach another this? 

Or is this something that one must figure out for themselves? 

For me I am constantly pointing towards self reflection, to understand ourselves. 

I simply write to invoke interest in understanding thought/self. 

I am not a teacher. Authority to me is very destructive when it comes to liberation and timelessness. 

 

Edited June 3, 2018 by Faceless

[Ananta]

 

51 minutes ago, Etagnwo said:

Well said

Thank you!

51 minutes ago, Etagnwo said:

Even the ego is awareness. So no need to kill it. Why bother? 

Thats right. It should not and frankly can not be killed. It's just a thought. How do we kill a thought? It's the I-thought, but it's a different kind of thought, in that it thinks, it's a real seperate entity.

Once the understanding that "I" am awareness and not the ego, is firm in the intellect , that's when the ego (I- thought) also realizes that although it "apparently" exists (it's just the I-thought), it's actually unreal (dream/illusion), ....but it doesn't "die", its needed to function in this "apparent" world.

Actually, I hate talking about ego, because of all the misunderstandings revolved around it.

51 minutes ago, Etagnwo said:

The belief that one is the supreme being. It's the mind that needs this insight. Awareness is already free 

The closest the mind/intellect can do is infer regarding the reflection of pure awareness in the sattvic mind. That's why it registers as the thought of limitlessness, even though the ego claims it as an experience when it comes back.

However, this is unmistakable or it is for me. There is no doubt, that that is what I am. If it's belief? Then, so be it, but as you've said before all the ancient texts support this, as it's revealed wisdom/Self-knowledge that is thousands of years old. 

 

Edited June 3, 2018 by Anna1

[Faceless]

Self knowledge/wisdom cannot be taught. 

This is something that must be explored in oneself, without any form of personal or collective authority. If one is pointing to that as a necessity that is a great sharing indeed. 

Edited June 3, 2018 by Faceless

[Ananta]

 

9 minutes ago, Faceless said:

Self knowledge/wisdom cannot be taught. 

Self-knowledge is exactly what Advaita Vedanta teachers teach. You don't know what youre talking about and I say that as respectfully as possible.

[Faceless]

@Anna1

Can you teach me about me?? 

Or does this have to be a first hand seeing and understanding?

[Saumaya]

2 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

Self-knowledge is exactly what Advaita Vedanta teachers teach

Mugging up bunch of spiritual concepts is not Self Knowledge

[Faceless]

To learn about yourself through another’s understanding is to understand there point of view about yourself. 

[Faceless]

2 minutes ago, Saumaya said:

Mugging up bunch of spiritual concepts is not Self Knowledge

Indeed. 

 @Saumaya 

 

[Ananta]

3 minutes ago, Faceless said:

@Anna1

Can you teach me about me?? 

Or does this have to be a first hand seeing and understanding?

Obviously the teaching has to be understood and contemplated.